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#339523 06/16/13 08:56 AM
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I bought the ten acres adjacent to my existing property, and it has a large pond on it. This drought has totally dried it up, and now is the time to make improvents in it. Here's the first of many pictures. I'd like to get your advice on what to do while awaiting the rain...besides pray, that is.



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back pond.JPG
Last edited by Mobilus; 06/16/13 08:58 AM. Reason: trying to figure out photo upload
Mobilus #339538 06/16/13 09:54 AM
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Here's a few pictures to show what I'm starting with. I want to set this pond up for LMB and BG.






Mobilus #339566 06/16/13 01:49 PM
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What to do to improve while its dry.

1) solve why its dry, figure out a way to help stop that agian.
2) decide what fish you want in there to get the right habitat placed for them.
3) If its dry because of drought consider going deeper (not wider) so it has more water reserve.

Last edited by fish n chips; 06/16/13 02:00 PM.
Mobilus #339574 06/16/13 04:53 PM
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Or figure out how to channel more runoff to it.

Where are you?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Dave, I'm right up the road from you in Clay County, where the Wichita/Clay/Archer county corners meet.

Yeah, flowing water has been real scarce for a long time. I know I have a picture from around ten years ago when that pond was full. I'll have to find it. It wasn't mine, so I didn't pay it too much attention back then.

Mobilus #339641 06/17/13 04:56 AM
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Yeah, not much question about why it's dry. I had a buddy, now deceased, who would mention things in the past. He would say "You know; back when it used to rain.".

You're in the area that sees dark clouds with mixed emotions.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Mobilus #339701 06/17/13 10:51 AM
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This is what it looked like in 2001 from the top of my house. Very impressive, I think. In a wetter part of the world, it'd probably stay this way, but when it doesn't rain...

Mobilus #339708 06/17/13 11:46 AM
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What a loss.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Mobilus #339718 06/17/13 01:04 PM
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I ran my loader bucket into the muck to see how deep it was, and it appears to be around 6 to 8 inches. Sounds good, especially in this red clay we have. If I'm wrong, please let me know. Working under the asumption that the muck will help keep the water clear (mud-free), I'm really debating the value of losing it compared to making the tank deeper. Anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?


Mobilus #339727 06/17/13 02:50 PM
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In our area, it seems folly to not capture all the water you can when it finally rains. Generally, dirty water will clear.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Mobilus #339743 06/17/13 04:10 PM
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Not sure if it's wise to keep the muck. If you have turbidity problems after the pond fills, there are ways to deal with that. It's much harder to make more water appear.

Bocomo #339777 06/17/13 10:05 PM
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Thanks guys...it looks like I need to make a call or two tomorrow about renting a track hoe.

Mobilus #339798 06/18/13 05:59 AM
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If that's all the accumulated muck you have, it doesn't look like a big deal.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Mobilus #339802 06/18/13 06:08 AM
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Mobilus, from the pics, it almost looks like the dam is on the high side of the pond. How much watershed does this pond have?


AL

Mobilus #339803 06/18/13 06:27 AM
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That satellite photo shows two ponds. Is the other one as low as yours? Does the other one fill faster when it rains (more watershed to it? better built?). At their current water levels, are they the same depths?

Mobilus #339804 06/18/13 06:32 AM
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As far as going and renting a trackhoe, are you thinking to just remove the muck layer or digging deeper. This is a quote from DD1 he just had in another thread, and it is good standard advice to all pond owners.


"There are a lot of dozer drivers who can push dirt and clear land. Not a lot know how to build ponds. For that, it takes a guy who knows about keyways(coring), packing with a sheepsfoot roller, local soils, your soil, and runoff areas.

The biggest recommendation is to hang around here and learn about pond building. You will learn a lot. And, it is your pond. Don't get in a hurry."

Mobilus #339958 06/18/13 10:13 PM
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Dave, that's as deep as the muck gets.

FireIsHot, the dam is on the low side. I know that from the front of my initial property (ten acres directly above this new lot)to the back the fall is around 7 to 8 feet. So the pond has all of the twenty acres once the small pond above it is full. I know that is part of the reason this one is empty...but it is stocked with CC and BG. So until we get rain, that one is the priority. Once it overflows, all excess water will shed to the big pond. Trouble is, we haven't had enough water to make that happen since I dug the small pond,

Fish n chips, the other one is pretty low now. All I can see are lilly pads over its whole surface. It may be a little deeper. They are on the same elevation...this one is the driest, probably because the bottom is flatter.

I was thinking of digging deeper, maybe another 4 feet or so in the shape of where the water was last...kind of a last ditch reservoir in case of another drought.

I really value this forum. You guys are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate your input.

Mobilus #339989 06/19/13 06:09 AM
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That's not a whole lot. Can you raise the dam?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Mobilus #340140 06/20/13 06:22 AM
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Dave, if I dig it out, how much deeper do you suggest?

Should I focus on a section in the center, say 50' by 150' or so, and dig that out ten feet or so?

This is red clay to the center of the earth as far as I know, so would there be any reason not to go hog wild and make it as deep as I can? I've got a line on a JD 180G that I hope pans out for a few days. I think the layout of the pond is good, just maybe too shallow for its size...for here anyways.

I'm thinking of concentrating on a smaller footprint so that in the event of another drought, the water remaining would have less surface area and not evaporate as fast?

I know that I have a lot of questions, so thanks in advance for your help.

Mobilus #340142 06/20/13 07:30 AM
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I think that maybe, Dave was asking if you could raise the dam, as a way to gain more depth. Seems logical. That way, you wouldn't have to disturb the established pond bottom.


I wonder if that muck would be a good compost to add to garden soil. It certainly looks rich.

Mobilus #340152 06/20/13 08:38 AM
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Dave probably has the best feel for your situation down there, but a few thoughts from me.

You have the right idea about making surface area smaller so evaporation amount will be reduced in ratio to size. If you make the pond deeper, you could put the overburden around the edges and make it smaller, so you have less surface area. Drawbacks would be steeper sides that may not be mowable when the pond goes down.

If you go deeper, that then should be compacted. The ability to do this depends. If you go deeper, will it fill with water as you work. Sounds like you have good clay, the water shouldn't be flowing into it while you work. But if the water does flow into it, then you have to deal with how to fix that problem.

If you dig, do you have a way to haul and move that dirt?

I think this is why Dave was wondering if you could just raise water level to accomplish the same thing as digging.

Dave, what about Otto? ( I know, Texas is big smile.)

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Originally Posted By: gully washer
I wonder if that muck would be a good compost to add to garden soil. It certainly looks rich.


I'm not sure, but while waiting on the excavator, I'm going to move some of it into a pile so that I can try mixing it into raised beds for the Fall.

I don't think raising the dam is the answer to this one. It might help hide the new house built behind it, but it won't help raise the water level. Too much of the "flood zone" is too shallow (to my untrained eye) already.

And as to the clay that I remove, the idea of controlling the surface size by adding it around the edges might work. But the pasture area around it looks pretty now, and is well established in grass. I have a compact utility tractor, so I can move the clay around after the excavator rental done.

I'm mowing the new property now, and will post some pictures of that soon, as it shows the current structure better than the previous ones did...too many weeds.

Mobilus #340741 06/25/13 06:24 AM
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Sorry, been out of town for the last week dealing with a bunch of Pond Boss lowlifes. Raising the dam to impound more water is a lot easier/cheaper than trying to figure out how to dig out pudding.

Mike Otto is in the area. Call him at 800 882-3478.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Here's a picture that might give a little more perspective to the size of the dam as it is now.


After I mowed the area, I realized that the builder had put in mounds in several locations. At full pool these were probably a few feet beneath the surface.




I'm considering elongating them when I dig. Most of the dirt can be added to the dam, but I like the idea of "fingers" extending into the deeper area.

Dave, I contacted the regional NRCS folks before I finalized the purchase, and was told to wait until I had deed in hand to seek their help. They mainly focus on water retention ponds for agricultural purposes, and don't give advice on pond design with fishing in mind. I need to touch base with them again.

I'll contact Mike Otto. I really need to keep this renovation on the cheap, however, and will probably do most of the work myself...I have 11 furlough days coming over the next few months, so I'll have more time than money. Good advice is generally worth what you have to pay...

Mobilus #341205 06/27/13 08:57 PM
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Is your property zoned so you could have a couple of beef cattle on it? If so, tell NRCS that you are considering raising some, and want to impound water so you have a ready supply for them to drink. wink


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