Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Need advice

I have a sump pump that I want to use to drain my small pond. I figure I have two options, sink the pump in the deepest part or use a tire inner tube to float the pump a few feet below the water level in a 5 gallon bucket tethered across the pond. Pond is 120' x 75', 12' at the deepest.

If I sink the pump I will have to mount it on something to keep it out of the muck. Someone said they mount their sump pump to a pallet with chains, I don't want to rust my chains and I think the pallet will float up because the pump won't be heavy enough to keep it down. If I put it in a bucket with holes in it, I think it may sink in the muck or suck up debris. The water depth is 12 feet, won't this lift be harder on the pump vs. pumping 3 feet from the surface? The electric cord on the pump is long enough to get over the 12' water level but I will have to run a tight rope across the pond to keep it up and dry. If I sink the pump I assume I will I have to remove the float and switch. Could I just leave it on or would it water log and stop pumping? My float works great and I hate to remove it because I don't know what I'm doing and I don't want to mess up the pump.

Floating the pump would require more tethers, I wouldn't have to remove the pump float, there would be less debris in the discharge and maybe less strain on the pump at first due to less lift (?) but I would have to enter the pond when the bucket hits bottom. Now I'm thinking the discharge hose will sink to the bottom even if the pump is floating higher so this idea is probably useless.

Putting the pump at the bottom of the pond seems the easiest way but how do I keep the muck out of the pump? I think even a piece of plywood would tend to float up, the pump is heavy but not that heavy. Is a 12' lift too much for a sump pump? Is it ok that the power cord on the pump is underwater (not the end of course) Any ideas or input would be appreciated, sorry this is so long.

My advice is don't even try using a sump pump, that is not what it is for.

Get a diaphragm or trash pump.

Loreta,

I use a sump pump in a five gallon bucket routinely to drain my "micro" ponds. The bucket keeps the pump out of the muck. My ponds that are 1/10th acre (90' by 45') and about 100,000 gallons and up to 9 feet deep. Why?

1.) Quiet. One of my neighbors who is a retired cop whines about the noise of my trash pump at night so I if I use the trash pump I can't run it at night.

2.) No constant filling of gas. I just plug it in and leave it alone. If I need to make adjustments I've got a yellow polypropylene rope attached to the back of the bucket I can pull on from shore to move it around.

3.) Once you get to the bottom they don't stir up the bottom as much as a trash pump. This is important me as I once stirred up some anoxic muck in my perch producton pond with a trash pump, and I lost a lot of perch due to a D.O. crash before I could get them all out. Of course if I had waited until the water got colder I may have been O.K.

4.) Easier to put in and take out.

5.) In about 3 days I'm done!

6.) They're economical and last at least several seasons for me. I got my 50 gpm pump from Menards for about $70.00. I've actually used smaller 20 gpm pumps but it takes a little longer.

Not disagreeing with The Pond Frog but I've had good luck with a 50 gpm sump placed in a five gallon bucket with a rope attached to the back of the bucket for my small ponds. I use a trash pump for my bigger .62 acre pond.

Make sure you tie the extension cord connection into an overhand knot so they don't come apart. Also a GFI outlet is imperative! I have power at all my ponds so plugging in is not a problem.

I'll see if i can find pictures in my browser. If not I promise to take some tomorrow as I'm in the process of draining my second pond in several days.

BTW if you unplug the sump pump you can still get a lesser siphon flow if your out flow end is low enough. Last summer I had a flow through system going for some bluegills in a tank that way. I got just enough flow from a pond at a higher level to refresh the water in the tank.

Note: didn't find any good pics on the browser. I promise to take some pics and post them tomorrow.

Cecil, do you think my pond is too big or too deep for a sump pump? The cord on it is really long (surprised me). I only paid $10 for the pump and it runs well, previous owners were foreclosed on and left in a hurry. I have used gas pumps before but this is my first sump pump. I know it will take longer than using a trash pump but I don't mind.

Also, the pump came in a bucket with holes in it. They are numerous but small. When I tried it in a shallow part of the pond the holes weren't big enough to fill the bucket fast enough. I don't think this will be a problem until the water line gets below the rim of the bucket. No? Should I make the holes bigger? Seeing pictures of your bucket will help a lot!

I was thinking if the cord is say 20' long then maybe a 12' depth isn't unreasonable? What do you think? Why do they make the cords that long?

Cecil has some very good points. I just use the pumps for what they are made for. The best trash pumps are high capacity trailer mounted. But you use what you already have, make a sump in your pond. I've seen guys burn up sump pumps using them to drain ponds. But if you keep it clear and clean, they will get the job done slow but sure. I might even pump and stop, long term continuous use is fairly rough on them.

Thank you Pond Frog, that helps. any suggestions about how long I should have it on and then off? I know there's no certain answer as it depends on my pump but what would you suggest?

What manufacturer and model number is yours?

I'll have to look tomorrow and I'm going to measure the cord. I bought it last summer and I'm not sure there's any info or label on it, I'll check though.

Well what you need to find out is if that sump pump you have is rated for intermittent duty, or continuous duty. Many of the less expensive models are rated for intermittent duty. Maybe 20 minutes per hour. This is how many guys burn the pumps up, because they were not designed to be run continously draining a pond, just to keep a sump empty, whenever it fills. I am just trying to save you the experience of learning the hard way.

Thanks Pond Frog, I appreciate your insight and I'll look for any markings so I can find out what exactly I have. I'm not losing much if it blows but it would be nice if I got more than one use out of it.

loretta, if you have a problem with your pump this is the one I have been using for 4 years, It sometimes has been used up to 5 days nonstop, it has also been clogged with debris and tripped the GFI, but it keeps on trucking.
I've taken the float and rod off and wired it to the handle in the on position.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?h...IwAg#ps-sellers

Adirondack pond, thank you for the picture! I haven't been outside yet to get a closer look at the pump. The float on mine is different, it's connected to the pump with a flexible tube and the float floats on the surface of the water, the tube with float is probably 18" long.

As long as the bucket is open on one end no problem. Once the water level gets low enough and not enough water is seeping in you'll hear the pump sucking. Then it's time to reposition in deeper water or unplug. If you really want to pump it dry with virtually no standing water you can do what I've done but I don't recommend it. I have an old barn ladder put up against the pond bank and walk down to the bottom of the pond with waders. I end up removing the sump pump from the bucket and set it up on top of a piece of rigid plastic. However going up and down the ladder is dangerous and you could get stuck in the muck of the pond bottom! Been there done that! No one was around either! After a bout 20 minutes and leaving one boot in the muck I finally got out! The air was full of colorful expletives too!




If the cord is long enough you're good to go. I actually use a extension cord or two with no problems. Just make sure if you use an extension cord to keep the connection above the waterline or you could trip a breaker.

Here's a picture for you.



The pump in the bucket is kept there by criss crossing rope through holes drilled in the end of the bucket. A rope is also tied to the other end of the bucket to move it around and pull it out.

Please feel to ask more questions. And please remember to be careful with electricity around water!

I totally removed the float from my pump as it's not needed.

Great! Thanks Cecil! It's ok to pump with the pump laying on it's side?

I measured the power cord, it is indeed 20' long. The float comes off the top of the pump, connected to the pump with a rubber tube, total length of tube and float is 24". I didn't readily see how to take it off because I didn't open up the pump. The model number looks like SD-316, I couldn't find it in a quick google search but logically it seems like it would be a continuous duty pump. I'm going to search some more to see if the float can be removed.

So I have a 20' cord which would lead me to believe that I can pump at least 12' of water (maybe not) but if I put the pump in more than 3.5' of water the float will be submerged. I'm worried that it will water log and sink, shutting off my pump. What to do?

Boy, I feel for you getting stuck like you did. I got stuck in the muck one time when I was alone, it was scary. I wondered if I would get out at all or fall over because I was trying to hold on to my boots while I was lifting my foot, then I started getting leg cramps, uh. Talk about swearing...... I had to leave a boot too, what a mess.

I have electricity in a small chicken coop that's near the pond. An electrician put the power in a couple of years ago, I will have to investigate for GFI before I begin because the electrician moved out of state. The plug doesn't have a button on the front of it like GFI's do, the plug is enclosed in an outdoor service box with cover. I'm almost sure it has to be GFI because it was put there for plugging in a water heater but I want to be positive that it is. The electrical line runs underground to another close building that has the circuit breaker box. Maybe there is something in the breaker box that makes it GFI (?). I know even less about electricity, lol.

I really appreciate your help!

Maybe I'll cable tie the float to the electrical cord because it's going to be vertical. I wouldn't mind removing the float but it looks like I have to open up the pump to do that and because it's a used pump and I don't know how used, I might have trouble getting it apart or having it seal again.

The float feels like it has a ball in it, when it's vertical the pump runs, when it's horizontal it stops. It's not like a float in the toilet.

Electrical outlet has the button, yeah!

Absolutely!



I don't know what to tell you. Mine came off very easily, but I don't remember specifics.



I don't think so. Hey the pump was free right? What have you got to lose? A brand new one is not that expensive.



Join the club. My dad was a telephone I & R man for 21 years after serving in the military for 20. He knows a lot about just about everything. He's nice to have around when he's not in Florida.



Anytime!

I took the pump to a plumbing shop to have an expert look at it. What I have is actually a sewage pump, 1/2 HP with mechanical float. I'm told the float should be ok underwater (it's made for that)and shouldn't water-log so I'm not going to tie it in the up position as it will be nice to have it working when I get to the bottom. The discharge GPM will be lower because I'm pumping at a 12' lift. I have some stuff to get before I set up everything. I will update once I get it going.

That's all for now, thanks again for all the help, ttyl.

P.S. The pump and 75' of 1.5" hose was $10 (not free, lol). I love my sewage pump .

No worries, sewage pump can be submersed and run for as long as you need it. I like you Loretta, your enthusiasm is admirable. Good luck with your pumping, and hopefully you won't get muckstuck. But if you walk out in it, I would go with at least hip waders and suspenders. Lost a boot in it before, that is a oh crap moment.