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Jan 10th, 2023
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Joined: May 2004
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Moderator Lunker
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OP
Moderator Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,972 Likes: 276 |
Moved here to give Ladia a personal thread. Hi everyone,
I am new to the Pond Boss and have leaking pond. The pond is four years old and wasn't ever full. The primary purpose of the dam was to bridge a ravine to get access to hour building site. Since we didn't have choice in selection of dam location the pond has marginal watershed about 8 to 1. Recommended watershed in our location is between 10 and 20 to 1.
The pond had problems from the beginning. First they got themselves into sand. Since they couldn't get material for dam from the bottom it was then taken from side of the ravine so we ended up with a bigger pond. They sealed the bottom with bentonite but the water level would rise to about 5 ft and never go above that. Therefore I bought a semi of bentonite and hired a guy with bulldozer to apply it on the rest of the pond. After that the water level rose to about 16 ft but kept dropping about 1" a day depending on actual head. Then I bought 150 gallons of ESS13 to get rid of the remaining leakage. It had only small effect. Now the water goes up a foot and droops a foot.
I took regular measurement on a yardstick embedded to the bottom and estimated area to calculate the leakage rate and ended up with about 7 gal/min depending on head. Extrapolation the head versus rate I estimated the depth of the leak. It looks like that the water follows the hydrant pipe they installed under the dam. I don't know if the builder installed collars on the pipe.
I have two questions.
1.) If the water follows the hydrant pipe, what would be the best way to seal it short of draining the water and dig into the dam
2.) I could about double the watershed by digging a ditch across the slope downstream of the pond following constant elevation line. What should be the slope of such ditch and the best way to dig it. I have a tractor with front loader and might buy a plow and/or backhoe. Welcome to the most informative pond site on television!
Increasing the watershed would really be a good idea BUT of no real value until the leak is sealed. More water would only mean greater drops and rises.
You did not say the size/acerage of the pond, but 7GPM shoul be visible. Can you dig on the dry side of the dam to see if water is around the pipe? Also, is this "hydrant pipe" the overflow, drain, water source? How do you handle overflow and large runoffs?
You already know this, but leaks tend to be expensive. Since you already have bentonite and ESS-13, possibly draining and compacting with a sheepsfoot would work.
Edit: Perhaps the mod's could move this and Ladia's question to a new thread?
Last edited by Theo Gallus; 01/17/09 11:12 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77 |
Moved here to give Ladia a personal thread. Hi everyone,
I am new to the Pond Boss and have leaking pond. The pond is four years old and wasn't ever full. The primary purpose of the dam was to bridge a ravine to get access to hour building site. Since we didn't have choice in selection of dam location the pond has marginal watershed about 8 to 1. Recommended watershed in our location is between 10 and 20 to 1.
The pond had problems from the beginning. First they got themselves into sand. Since they couldn't get material for dam from the bottom it was then taken from side of the ravine so we ended up with a bigger pond. They sealed the bottom with bentonite but the water level would rise to about 5 ft and never go above that. Therefore I bought a semi of bentonite and hired a guy with bulldozer to apply it on the rest of the pond. After that the water level rose to about 16 ft but kept dropping about 1" a day depending on actual head. Then I bought 150 gallons of ESS13 to get rid of the remaining leakage. It had only small effect. Now the water goes up a foot and droops a foot.
I took regular measurement on a yardstick embedded to the bottom and estimated area to calculate the leakage rate and ended up with about 7 gal/min depending on head. Extrapolation the head versus rate I estimated the depth of the leak. It looks like that the water follows the hydrant pipe they installed under the dam. I don't know if the builder installed collars on the pipe.
I have two questions.
1.) If the water follows the hydrant pipe, what would be the best way to seal it short of draining the water and dig into the dam
2.) I could about double the watershed by digging a ditch across the slope downstream of the pond following constant elevation line. What should be the slope of such ditch and the best way to dig it. I have a tractor with front loader and might buy a plow and/or backhoe. Welcome to the most informative pond site on television!
Increasing the watershed would really be a good idea BUT of no real value until the leak is sealed. More water would only mean greater drops and rises.
You did not say the size/acerage of the pond, but 7GPM shoul be visible. Can you dig on the dry side of the dam to see if water is around the pipe? Also, is this "hydrant pipe" the overflow, drain, water source? How do you handle overflow and large runoffs?
You already know this, but leaks tend to be expensive. Since you already have bentonite and ESS-13, possibly draining and compacting with a sheepsfoot would work.
Edit: Perhaps the mod's could move this and Ladia's question to a new thread? The pond, when full will be about 3/4 ac and about 21 ft deep in the deepest point. Currently the water level is about 8 ft bellow maximum. Overflow is on "virgin" soil on north end of the dam. If the leak is around the hydrant pipe it seeps under the dam in the underlying sand. There isn't visible wet spot or just greener grass anywhere on the dry side of the dam. This area has generally very good type of soil for pond building. The pond is just in wrong place I suppose. The south side of the ravine that was dammed has a layer of sand under the black clay ( they call it gumbo, I think). Two of my neighbors whose land is on the other side of the ridge than my pond have wells on my property because the other side is impenetrable. They have whole cascade of great ponds though. I also had to spend extra money for septic tank with discharge to the surface because the soil wouldn’t percolate. That is the paradox of my property. I was thinking that, since there is ice on the water, I would cut a hole just above the hydrant pipe and throw there 10 to 15 cuft of concrete to make a collar around the pipe. Since it will be only on the surface there is a danger that it wouldn't work and make future repair very difficult I killed the project before it started. I will try to use the "milk" test somebody mentioned in this thread. Since the water is clear in the winter I will cut hole above suspected leak, insert underwater camera I borrow from my fisherman friend and pour milk there trough a hose. If the leak is located there I will pump water out till the hydrant pipe is above the water line, remove some material around the pipe to several feet deep and wide, fill the cavity with a layer of concrete, cover it all up and compact it. Would it work? Is there a better way? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ladia.
We live in a barn (aircraft hanger) converted to a house.
0.7 ac leaky pond.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame  Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
I'm sure soil compaction would be best. I doubt concrete would work, unless you'd like a three quarter acre swimming pool!  For right now a leak may actually be a good thing if you have no emergency OR primary spillway. You said the Primary purpose was as a bridge for access. A big rain event can top then cut right through the dam letting a 3/4 acre, 21 foot tall wall of water that will wipe out anything below. Is there a way to dig out around the hydrant pipe on the same (or lower) elevation in a "dry" area? If not, you may be better off spending the money to sheepsfoot the entire pool area and don't forget some overflows at the same time. I have had to take my neighbor to court for damages because he built then re-built his dam 3 times without adequate spillways and did a LOT of damage to my property.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5
Ambassador
Field Correspondent Lunker
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5 |
Extrapolation the head versus rate I estimated the depth of the leak After that phrase I had to peek at your profile, my guess was that you were either a bean counter or an engineer. It seems like they teach bean counters and engineers to use the word extrapolation so that other folks will think we're working hard.  Oh and Welcome to Pond Boss Ladia, we're glad you found us.
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77 |
I took advantage of ice on the pond and used a laser to measure the depth. My original post overstated the maximum depth by large margin. Currently there is 6 ft of water in the deepest point. The overflow is 92" above the ice so total depth is about 14 ft.
We live in a barn (aircraft hanger) converted to a house.
0.7 ac leaky pond.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
As an engineer, I assume you took into account suspended solids, light refraction, water density, and possible fish interferance! Just kidding!!! All that math would make my head explode! Guess that's why I LIVE witha bean counter! I would have just used a length of PVC pipe and a tape measure. 
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77 |
Actually I used rope and weight to measure the depth from ice to the bottom in several places. Then I used a laser level to measure the distance from ice to the overflow. No math beside adding three numbers together was involved.
We live in a barn (aircraft hanger) converted to a house.
0.7 ac leaky pond.
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