Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Water temp to add ghost shrimp to pond

Hello, I am looking at adding ghost shrimp to my pond and I was wondering if there was a certain water temp at which to add them to insure survival? I was also wondering at what temps they spawn or reproduce and how many eggs are laid per female? Also what do they lay the eggs on? I can get about 700 per order, is that enough to get them going in a 2 1/2 acre pond with LMB, CC and BC as predators? I have a ton of that slimy moss algae floating around in my pond this year so there should be plenty of food and hiding places. My pond only iced over for about 1 week this year and I could see this stuff growing like mad under the ice. I am in the Leavenworth Kansas area. Thanks, John

John,

Don't really know what temps are best. I do know they are hardy, and you can probably stock them at anything over 40F if you first slowly acclimate them to the water temperature.

Also don't know what temps eggs appear. I can tell you that mine have eggs now (current water temp is 71F), and started showing eggs when water temps were ~60F.

They produce anywhere from 10 to 90 eggs per clutch, depending on the size and health of the female. They don't "lay" eggs, but rather carry them beneath the tail until they hatch, where they swim away as tiny larvae. The larval stages last about 3 weeks, depending on climate. You can think of shrimp as "live bearers" in a way. That's why they reproduce so efficiently even though they produce relatively few eggs.

I started with ~175 shrimp for 1.5 acres, and they did fine. So I guess 700 would do, especially if you have grass and algae for cover and food. If 20% reproduce, you could have 4,000-5,000 in no time, and more if they reproduce a 2nd time this summer.

Hope that helps, and good luck,

John,

Make sure you are getting P. kadiakensis. Those are the only ones you want for your location.

I'm considering adding them to my pond also.

John I agree with Weissguy, I have seen a website that offered them at ~700 per order and the company was from Fla. The odds are that they are the saltwater/brackish water variety. If you do order them please put some in a home aquarium or water trough and see how long they in fresh water and let us know. I have been searching for quite sometime, the only internet sources of P. kadiakensis that I could find want $0.35-0.40 each on an order of 1000.

You are correct,thanks for the info. The place I was going to order from is in Florida. Please let me know if anyone finds any P. kadiakensis for sale online at a cheaper rate. Thanks guys

Try this website http://www.skeeterbytes.com/forsale/mfish.htm#Shrimp

I'm in Lincoln NE and wondering if ghost shrimp [P. kadiakensis]can make it through our tough winters...any concerns you guys might have?

This site offers them for $.45/each - I'm sure a significant order could drive the price lower.

http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/misc_critters/shrimp_ghost.htm

John, your link is out of Kansas, if they are caught in the wild, or raised outdoors, then I would assume P. kadiakensis. Might be worth e-mailing them to find out.

teehjaeh, I have talked to a man that sells them (p. kadiakensis) and he is located in the middle of Nebraska. He claims he raises them outdoors for 20+ years. If they live for him I bet they would be fine for you. PM me if you want more details.

This is a good link to another grass shrimp discussion on here, http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=144813#Post144813

The grass shrimp from FL are almost always P. paludosus. They are a freshwater grass shrimp, they just can't survive cold temps. They are also the species that is almost solely sold at Wal-Marts, pet stores and other places that sell grass or ghost shrimp as feeder food. If it weren't for their intolerance of cold water they'd do fine in a freshwater pond, but their cold intolerance is why P. kadiakensis is the only viable option for northern ponds. Other species, are able to survive further north such as P. pugio and P. valgaris but as others have mentioned, they need brackish water to reproduce.

If anyone finds a good on-line source for P. kadiakensis, please post it. Only one place I have found on-line actually mentions the scientific name P. kadiakensis, directly... http://www.fishhobbysupply.com/invertebrates.php but at a $1 a piece or 12 for $10, that's a bank breaker!!!

P. kadiakensis are found in the marshy areas of some of the Great Lakes, so if they can survive that far north, just about any place in the lower 48 should be fine for them. Just recently some were found in the Monongahela River in the Pittsburg area of PA, had scientists all excited as they are an indicator species of high water quality. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06235/715487-113.stm

CJ, do you happen to know what the PH tolerance of grass shrimp is?
With a PH of 5.5, I don't know if they would survive in my pond.

I am not 100% sure but I believe they prefer harder water with a more alkaline pH...

I think P. kadiakensis will be fine in any PH that common fish can survive in.

Thanks for the info, I guess the only way for sure is get a few and put them in a bucket of my pond water.
I'm always looking for new forage for my acidic pond, when the ice recedes I'll be searching for central mudminnows.

Sorry guys, these are NOT P. kadiakensis - they are P. paludosus...no good for we meisters up North.
I got a good lead on a supplier but have to verify I can share the information. Hopefully will solve our supply problems as they are reasonably priced for higher qty orders.

Bobad help us out here,

When you gathered and stocked your ~175 shrimp, where there some fish in the pond, was it already established, was it void of major predators as you know?

The reason I ask is because if we find a legit source of P. kadiakensis how many should I buy to try and ensure a chance at establishing a population.

For me I want them in a newly built 5 acre pond that at the moment has only initial stocking of forage fish. They have not reproduced yet so I would think my predator desity is there but low compared to an established pond. If they could find some places to hide, combined with there clear color, and the abundant other sources of food present for the forage fish, I think they may have a shot. Not to mention it is time for them to start reproducing.

I know it depends on many things but would like to know my chances before spending 0.35-1.00 each!

From my readings on P. kadiakensis, they are most common in back waters of riverine habitats but can adapt to pond life as they are very common in some oxbow ponds and lakes. They seem to like eel grass beds as that is where researchers seem to find them most. They are picky about water quality but don't seem to mind some turbidity and silt.

I have a small barren pond that I plan to turn into a forage fish pond. I am hoping to stock it with P. kadiakensis first to give them a chance to reproduce before any other fish are added. I know from having kept P. paludosus in an aquarium that even fish with mouths too small to eat them whole will pick at them non stop until they are dead and then pick them apart. Perhaps in a larger pond environment they can hide more and that kind of predation will be limited.

I think Bill Cody has experience with P. kadiakensis in OH, if he sees this thread perhaps he can chime in and give us his experiences.

JakeB,

If you have any grass or cover of any kind I think you will succeed.

I stocked my BG, RES, and P.K. at about the same time. The only cover I had was bermudagrass that crept over the edge of the bank. The water was muddy, so that may have helped the P.K get established.

I think fish have to learn how to find these little shrimp. I don't think they know how to find and catch them at first, because they are so clear. Once the fish learn how to find and catch them efficiently, I'm sure cover is more important.

bodad's experiences with P. kadiakensis are similar to mine in Ohio. Grass shrimp do great in shallow water, shoreline areas with weeds or grass, even if the grass is marginal. When predators are present, the best weeds are fine leafed species. One has to remember that adequate cover should be present all year especially during winter when weeds are typically at their minimum. At that time the shrimp are very vulnerable to heavy predation and could possibly be wiped out. I don't think the shrimp do real well with just filamentous algae for cover. It is too dense and does not allow the shrimp easy mobility through the mats. Once the panfish figure out they are good food the shrimp population becomes more exploited and adequate cover becomes more important. IMO the shrimp do best in water with lower silt turbidity, although the planktonic algae and detritus turbidity can be okay. I have them growing pretty well in a minnow pond with 18"-24" visibility due primarily to silt turbidity. They did better when the water was clearer and more weedy (sago pondweed & eel grass).

There is a pond that I help manage that has only female YP, minnows with grass shrimp. The pond has lots of fine leafed pondweed (Potomogeton pusillus) and Chara. The grass shrimp are very abundant among the weed beds in this pond. They overwinter fine in northern Ohio. I have seen grass shrimp do well in ponds with a good amount of water milfoil or eel grass. Bushy pond weed (water nymph family, Najas, Naiad) and coontail beds would be other weed species where grass shrimp would thrive, although I consider these weeds a nuisance, rampant, and overall not desirable in fishing ponds. Other fine leafed species would include water star grass (Hetercanthera dubia) and horned pond weed (Zannichellia palustris).