Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations 2007 CNBG Plan

2007 CNBG Pond Plan
My thanks and appreciation goes to Condello, Cody, and Baird for a thorough education in the propagation of BG, and informed and advised on the identification of CNBG by Overton and Ewest, I am now prepared to take the next GIANT step.

Our pond has a healthy population of a mix of large Florida and Arkansas CNBG genetics. The logical plan is to “copycat” the path of Bruce Condello, on the management of our pond for preservation of optimum CNBG brood stock.

Since it is common to catch numerous BG daily in the 6 –11 inch range, the plan will be to preserve BG with predominate “chunky” CNBG characteristics, and harvest 6 – 9 inch female BG that do not reflect dominate Florida strain CNBG traits.

Comments, suggestions, and advice sincerely solicited.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003546

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001816

George - Even though both fish look somewhat dissimilar, I think they are both males.

Those pictures are something---almost distorted in their shape. I agree about them both being males. I love the fringe around the coppernose's tail. George, I don't think you can go wrong with your plan. The beauty of it is that if you accidentally harvest a male or two, so what, right? Each fish you harvest has the direct effect of decreasing competition vs. similarly sized males for the coveted big food items. It's a win/win situation. You get to catch and eat some beautiful fish, and the rest grow bigger and better. Look forward to seeing your pond someday!

A lesser PM could just declare victory under those conditions.

George wants to win the battle and the war both!

George, I think it is a good plan, but not sure how the LMB will feel about it...not to mention those close relatives of yours that are huge LMB fanatics

George, if you are worried about taking away some of the LMB forage, the smaller 6 inch BG can be handicapped and reintroduced into the pond as easy prey for the bass. Now that I have bass and a few CC, I cut some up, and slightly wound or clip others and put them back.

George what about doing that in the forage pond (take out the small ones and put them in the big pond for forage) and put only the best males in the forage pond. Much easier to work the small pond as well as control the variables.

Thanks Bill and Bruce,
Risks of removing mistakenly identification of females is small, because no fish will be removed with predominate Florida characteristics.
Male or female CNBG with Florida characteristics as the one below, will never see my skillet..



Theo, I thought the only purpose for BG was forage until you northern boys lit my BG fire. I don’t know why in the world any one would ever consider HBG when you can raise this quality fish so easy.

Todd, I think I have figured something out - you know we worry about the LMB stunting and over-populating - it hasn’t happened.

In respect for my “close relative huge LMB fanatic” reluctance to cull LMB, I truly believe that the larger HSB are doing the “culling” of LMB fingerlings? Jeff is a happy camper right now catching and releasing 3 –5 lb LMB, with lunkers lurking in the shadows. He’s careful not to put too much pressure on them and fast becoming a HSB convert.

Todd, I know we’ve talked about this before, but I am convinced that multiple feeders have been a large contributor in numbers of quality CNBG and HSB, by eliminating concentration of fish around a single feeder?

Thanks burger – good idea..

Eric, since the forage pond became a HSB “grow-out” pond, the BG have disappeared.,,

George, I really think HBG have a proper place, I'm just not entirely sure where it is. If I had multiple ponds (like, say, ML) I'd put HBG in one and try to do a HBG pond the way I think it should be done (like, say, ML). But I can't see trying to have HBG in a pond with breeding Lepomis, for a number of reasons (worry about gene pools included, but chiefly the fact that I haven't seen a HBG in my pond for over two years - the numbers of breeding BG simply overwhelm HBG as a part of the fishing experience). And my second pond is going to be primarily for RES breeding and male BG growing, so having HBG in it is out, too.

I keep trying to talk new PMs with small ponds into running a proper HBG pond, and they keep getting talked out of it. I can't complain until I offer up my own water to do it, either.

George that is part of my point. The HSB can't eat a 10in CNBG and their eating of any small BG/CNBG will mean more food for the big CNBG. The other part is that it is easier to control variables in a small pond. Plus you can start working on the same matters in the big pond at the same time. What it does is give you a secure dedicated population of large CNBG in one relatively easy to control location.

Eric, bear with me – this may be confusing – to me anyway.

Our ¼ acre 12ft deep pond was dug in February 2004 for a livestock tank, and initially a potential forage pond. It was drought conditions but did fill to 4ft of water by late summer. We stocked 100 RES and 6 lbs of FHM, which literally exploded by years end.

I wanted HSB in main pond, having experienced high LMB predation at an earlier date with 4 –6 inch stockers, I changed my mind about forage and considered a “grow-out” pond.

February 2005 we stocked 100 4 –6 inch Arkansas HSB that were stunted and in poor condition.
The next morning 20-30 was DOA. (Bruce told me that for each dead fish there were probably 2 unseen), and to say the least I was disappointed and almost gave up on the “grow-out” idea.

By fall we had caught and transferred about 20+, 10-12 inchers to main pond.

Early fall this year, my son told me not to give up - he had caught several HSB the past few weeks in the 2 lb class – sure enough I headed to the “little pond” and caught 2 that I transferred to main pond. I haven’t fished this pond seriously but will now that I know there are some quality HSB remaining from original stocking.

These fish never really got on feed, and I believe they fed on fathead minnows and RES spawn. Spring of 2006 I stocked 6 breeding pairs of CNBG and have never seen them since. They are likely still there, and spawn consumed by large HSB.

I am encouraged that the HSB survived two drought low water summers in such good condition.

11-18-06 we stocked 50, 5 – 7+ inch HSB from Overton Fisheries and they went on feed immediately.

If the HSB “grow-out” stockers are successful in a pond with no aeration under drought conditions and low water, the "grow-out”plan will continue.

If not – we’ll return to the BG plan and follow you excellent suggestions.

Long winded but complicated issues.

George I think you are on the plan already. The few CNBG and RES spawn that survive to 1 year (6 in.) will turn in to large healthy fish provided their parents and the HSB keep the yoy survival numbers low as you have indicate it appears they are doing. The risk I see is water quality/DO . Sounds like a good plan that will accomplish 2 goals at once.

Eric, all of us in this part of the country are concerned about water quality - if we don't get some meaningful rain this winter/spring all of our plans are academic...

The little pond is three years old and has been 1/2 full once, and 5 year old main pond has been full one time - currently 4 ft. low...