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#68801 04/28/06 08:51 PM
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This report is a couple of days early but there is a cold front approaching this evening and as a result, the fish were very active in all the ponds. Here is the update for May:

The aggressiveness test resulted in the following readings: TGG=65, CNBG=35, native BG=15.
I used a small grass shrimp/baby crawfish imitation fly. For those of you who fly fish, I tie this fly with tan fly fur, flashabou, and black bead chain eyes back close to the hook bend.

The TGG = 65 is about as high a reading as this test will see...in fact, it is the highest reading I've ever experienced on BG on a fly rod. This isn't feeder fishing either, where one can expect a hit every cast right next to the artificial feeder. This is open pond fishing. Three TGG caught, seven hits in 10 casts. The three fish were each approaching 8 inches with one of them a solid 8 inches and very good girth. There is a definite trend developing...the TGG are meat eaters, not bug eaters. This may explain their rapid growth, in part. I intend to use a Miss Prissy for the next test and expect the TGG to drop way back on the score...but we will see.

I didn't have my digital camera (on loan) so I will not use the lengths in the data table this month (there will be no recorded data without pictures to prove the data). I will update the table, however, with the aggressiveness test results. Next update will be around the first of June. I expect to record the first official TGG fish at or above 8 inches at that time (and will have the camera next time to document the catch).

Stay tuned. The summer should get real interesting. \:\)

#68802 04/29/06 07:58 PM
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Good new, ML. How big are the CNBG you are catching? How big and when were they stocked?


#68803 04/29/06 08:24 PM
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The CNBG, for the most part, have been in the ponds for a long time. They come in various sizes all the way up to and over 10 inches. This spring I made a pilgramage to Tyler Fish Farm to get some of Bob's CNBG genetics in my ponds. He hand selected CNBG from Florida many years ago and has some terrific genetics.

One of the limitations of this study is lack of a prefect control group, i.e a CNBG pond identical in every respect to the TGG pond. To combat that weakness, I requested and received "control group" data from Bill Cody. Interestingly, that control data is pretty uniform across the South.

The TGG through the winter, exceeded that baseline data, doubling it in fact, and now that the growing season is really underway, appear to be exceeding that baseline even further.

#68804 05/09/06 01:01 PM
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With all the dire warnings about the vast hordes of stunted green sunfish that would result from this experiment, I've been trying hard to trap/find some offspring from the TGG's.

This past weekend, I set a large fish trap, one which usually nets a couple dozen baby BG every couple of hours in my large pond, and checked it regularly over a three day period.

Result: zero Fx offspring, not a one.

Some possible explainations that have come to mind for this are:

1) there are no surviving Fx offspring and the HSB are doing there job just as intended
2) the TGG's haven't spawned yet
3) the trap is ineffective
4) I received all male TGG from Deb's place
5) rumors of green sunfish are, as Mark Twain once stated about his death, greatly exaggerated.

I'm strongly leaning to #1 and #5 but welcome any comments and/or suggestions as to the reasons for the apparent lack of Fx offspring.

Not being familiar with the spawning habits of these fish, #2 also seems like a possibility....although I have considerable evidence of large CNBG spawn in other ponds.

#68805 05/09/06 01:23 PM
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Thanks ML good update, In my pond with a mix of GG and CNBG I got good reproduction but most if not all were CNBG(a good thing)
One difference with my pond is that the GG readly took to feed up to a point in size then would mostly eat live things. I know this from fishing if you wanted to catch the largest GG you fished away from the feeders. One drawback to GG I found out is they will drive you crazy hitting your lures when you are bass fishing, I pulled in many thinking I had a small LMB
Bill

#68806 05/09/06 02:06 PM
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Bill, what's the biggest Georgia Giant you've ever personally seen?

Thanks in advance.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=112031

#68807 05/09/06 02:15 PM
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No picture, but it was 4 years olds and weighed 1.5 Lbs on a digital scale. Wish now I had kept better records. As I just stated got very little reproduction so at year 4 all(or most) were F-1s and all weighted 1 Lbs or greater.

#68808 05/09/06 02:27 PM
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Are the GG Bluegill-GS crosses or Bluegill-RE crosses? I've always read that the GS cross was only 60% male, while the RE cross was 97% male.


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#68809 05/09/06 02:31 PM
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Great report ML
I am thinking of having a lil panfish pond in a few years and if things keep going so well for you I might give them a try
good job



#68810 05/09/06 03:43 PM
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Ealong59 no one knows the GG cross other that Ken and Jason Holyoak but it is known that it is a cross of more than two types of fish

#68811 05/09/06 04:58 PM
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Bill I am wondering how you learned that the GG is a cross of more than 2 types of fish? Has anyone said that and if so who? Was it someone other than Holyoak? I have seen them referred to as a proprietary strain of HBG in a study. Just wondering and trying to keep the facts straight in my mind. I will hunt up the old thread where some guy claimed to have worked on this before Ken and see what it says.
















#68812 05/09/06 05:40 PM
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Deb told me and I think she said so at the Georgia Pond Boss meeting. The thread you are refering to is the son of a man Ken was mentored by and claims his Dad gave the GG cross to Ken. Ken through Deb said the man was like a father to him but GG was developed after they worked together.
I am sure Deb is restricted as to what she can say about GG but it would be interesting how many fish are crossed
Eric to answer your question the info came from Holyoak through Deb

#68813 05/09/06 05:53 PM
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Does anyone know if these are just a southern fish, or will they survive a northern winter?


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#68814 05/09/06 07:42 PM
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ML, if you want your GG threads to remain scientific in nature, I urge you to refrain from comedic comments like "With all the dire warnings about the vast hordes of stunted green sunfish..." unless you want the anti GG group to comment. I feel you've been given a fair shake to represent your scientific study. If you're looking for a counter-strike, I would like to remind the masses that your GG population has no lasting value, and that they degenerate in size each spawn.

#68815 05/09/06 08:33 PM
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Robinson thanks for the link where does it say GG are prohibited in Fla

#68816 05/09/06 08:59 PM
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A warning shot across your bows, gentlemen. Please maintain decorum and respect. Your friendly neighborhood moderators will not take the time to sort out your facts from your opinions when the latter are inflammatory. Deleting is faster.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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#68817 05/09/06 09:00 PM
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Bill:

Read the section on Green Sunfish. Florida states that GGs are a hybrid of GSF and they are therefore banned as well.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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#68818 05/09/06 09:22 PM
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Theo I second that caution. Lets stick to the facts on both sides.

ML my guess is trap is to large for tiny offspring at this point. They are still to small for HSB ,if they have spawned. No indication from sellers that they have trouble reproducing. Now one thing to think about is if the ate their own as with BG who are the biggest predator of their kin when small. Studies show 3-4in BG are the biggest predators of small swim up sized BG
















#68819 05/09/06 11:39 PM
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MI unlike FL is surrounded by FRESH WATER, and they tell the people of the state to stock Hybrid Sunfish over regular Bluegill! I've lived in both states and I believe the fishing in MI to be much much MUCH better than FL. Just maybe FL biologists know more about salt than fresh water?


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#68820 05/10/06 05:49 AM
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To quote Bob Lusk from the Georgia Pond Boss meeting "Georgia Giants or Hybrid Bream can not and will not revert to Green Sunfish", "you can't unbake a cake"

#68821 05/10/06 06:35 AM
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I have a pretty good population of green sunfish. However, I stocked neither Hybrids nor greenies. I figure they came from the hatchery mixed with BG. Or, I got some help from neighbors. I still don't believe that the stork brings baby fish.

I don't understand the concern. They spawn once per year and their elongated shape makes them good predator food. I find that a much bigger danger to a small pond is BG overspawning.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
#68822 05/10/06 07:22 AM
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My personal take on Florida's ban on GSF is that they are VERY concerned about non-native species. Being sub-tropical, a vacation land, a retirement land, and a major entry point for all kinds of commerce coming into the U.S., they have aquired a host of invasive exotics, finned and otherwise, that makes them extremely sensitive about letting any more in on purpose.

Don't they have pythons that have made in into the Everglades and give the Gators a run for their money?


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#68823 05/10/06 07:44 AM
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I was in South Miami at a Power Plant last week. You would not believe the amount of "wild" parrots that they have now. These parrots were building huge nests of 1/4" to 1/2" diameter sticks up on the overhead crane. The nests were about 3-4' in diameter.

These "wild" parrots originated from people letting their "pets" go.

The everglades do now have populations of pythons, and anancondas from what I heard.

Also, in South Florida, there is an area where iguanas [sp?] have taken hold.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

#68824 05/10/06 08:07 AM
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EWEST,

Cannibals...that seems like a very good possibility also. The GG's really do attack small minnows. The trap did catch some small Gambusia, so I doubt it is too small to catch GG offspring. Maybe they are very late spawners compared to regular BG?

I'll continue the trapping as the summer goes along and report results. The thesis of the experiemnt is to evaluate the growth, aggressiveness, and sustainability of the GG's in a small pond. The trapping is part of the evaluation of the sustainability and nothing more. I'll continue to trap during the summer and report results...as well as continue to measure and report on the growth and aggressiveness.

#68825 05/10/06 09:14 AM
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Florida is already overrun with all the fish that they have listed, and many others. I know the canals out of and near Miami and Naples are full of Oscar, fun to catch(1 lb. fish fights like a 5 lb. fish), but definitely not a local fish. They have peacock bass stocked near Miami, also.


Edward A Long
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