Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Fish Eating Bug!

I just stocked my pond today with LMB I got from the KDFW and they were some small dudes, about 1/2 inch or so.

I put them in and watched them for a while and water bugs would chase them and every now and then catch one and swim around while carry the little bass on it's back. The bug is a common water bug I've seen them alot I've even had them in my pool from time to time. They are the ones that swim with 2 legs on either side and if you can catch one they flip around like crazy

Does anyone know what kind of bug this is and do they normally prey on small fish?

Yes there certainly are carnivorous aquatic insects that feed on small fish. That's why aquaculturists that plan on spawning fish in a pond and producing offspring, leave the pond empty and dry until just before planting the broodstock. That keeps the insects from getting a head start on the fry.

What kind of impact do they pose to newly stocked ponds. I put 90 bass in, how many will be left when they'er big enough to defend themselves?

I can' answer that. Depends of course on how many insects you have and other factors. Maybe Bill Cody can weigh in on this one. I would think once you have some fish survival and they are large enough the tables will turn on these critters.

scsims- From your description your "bugs" are adult insects in the Order Hemiptera (true bugs). They are either water boatmen (Family-Corixidae) or back swimmers (Fam -Notonectidae). Both have piercing mouth parts but the back swimmers more often tend to be predatory and the larger ones feed on other aquatic insects, small tadpoles, and small fishes. If these bugs are handled carelessly they can "sting" you sharply with their piercing mouth or beak. Swimmers sometimes complain of getting bit by these bugs in fishless ponds. Large fingerling, juvenile and adult panfish fish readily eat these bugs.

Ponds can have predaceous beetles that eat small fish but your description does not acurately describe them.

In fishless ponds I have seen water boatmen / backswimmer densities as high as about one per gallon of water.

Typically bass are stocked at 2"-4" long and they can eat these "bugs". Obviously from your description the adult bugs can eat some of the 3/4"-1" bass which is a good reason why not to stock real small fish (1/2"-1") in a fishless pond that has a lot of backswimers. Your bass survival may be poor and you may have to restock a few larger bass in the fall. Time and careful observation / sampling will answer this question.

Well, I wonder if that is why I have not seen any of the 1/2 inch bluegill I stocked last fall.

You would think the KDFW would realize this and give larger fish in their new pond fish stocking program.

scsims, perhaps you could do a few things to help these mini-bass survive a little longer. Maybe some cover (temp. or permanent) like a few floating pieces of plywood? Would this attract the bass frye and allow them to be fully covered from above, so the back swimmers couldn't get 'em?

Maybe even floating pallets or brush piles...

Yeah I would like to do something, I could buy larger bass but they would eat the little fish as well.

Bill Cody, do you think this is why I haven't seen any activity from the 300 finger nail size BG I put in there in Oct.?

scsims, if you buy bigger bass, why would you be concerned if they ate the current mini-bass?

I guess I wouldn't be, but I would nee to stock more BG if they were eaten by the bugs as well.

I also put in 2" catfish but I think they would probaly be ok since they don't stay in the same areas as the bugs.

So, how do I go about sampling the fish in my pond to see the survival rate?

How do you sample your pond...

Listed in order of costs / trouble from greatest to least. (Also in order of effectiveness.)

Shock boat
seine
cast net
fishing

Nick Smith :

Great answer . Often people forget the seine method or that the best results come from combining the results of several methods. I would add one method -- observation. Not only what you see {use polarized glasses} but also the results from underwater cameras and sonar {fishfinder}. Careful observation with written notes adds a lot to any survey attempt. The notes are important. If after using several methods the results are at odds the notes let you describe the situation in detail to others who may see something you don't. They also provide a collective memory over time { a baseline of data}. ewest

scsims,

I look at this a little differently. Yes, the techniques listed above are good, but I think it depends on who is looking at the pond.

If you call in a specialist/consultant, then they probably need to do the electro-survey to give you good inputs.

For the average pond owner who frequents their pond often and observes carefully, you never need to do electro-shock. In fact, careful observation coupled with fishing is all you ever need to do.

I did not learn a single thing from electro-shocking that I hadn't already observed...except that electro-shocking is something I would never do again.

Our ponds speak to us. They tell us what is wrong and right. We just need to listen to them carefully and act on what they tell us.

scsims and others - Add to your sampling list - fish traps - which come in all sorts of sizes, mesh sizes and shapes. Since scsims has small fish the wire mesh, cone end traps will work good to sample the small bgill(1"-3"). Opening sizes can be modified.

LM bass do not readily enter traps whereas SM bass usually will not hesitate to enter a fish trap. Hyb bgill also readily enter fish traps. Manyh oif teh minnows and shiners readily enter baited traps. Yellow perch trap well.

Determining fish survival can be very nebulous. Fish are very good at not being seen or observed expecially if the observer is moving or somewhat active. Water clarity also has a big part to play in this "game".

scisms - there are way too many variables for me to guess about the percentage of survial of your fish. For sampling small LMbass (3"-6" long) I use a small hook (aberdeen No. 14 to 10) baited with a piece of worm, a tiny foam float (1/4"x3/4") or a very small thin pencil bobber, no weight, light line 4lb-6lb. Other live baits such as small minnows (1") may also work.

Thanks, for the replies, I may try one of those fish traps just to see if I can come across a bluegill.

I can see the little bass I just stocked every now and then just off the banks. So, if I can trap a couple of little bluegill I will feel much better.

Bill C., because you mentioned that SMB may go into a fish trap, could you recommend a fish trap that would be good for a slow current stream, from 2-4' deep, that could trap 3-4lb. SMB without harm?

Thanks.

Sunil - since I lived in PA for 10 yrs I am sure that trapping adult SMB and other gamefish is illegal in PA. Local game warden may be watching for the owner of an unidentifed or unmarked fish trap. Memphis Net and Twine have adult fish traps. Homemade traps of larger size work good. If trapping adult fish I think a nylon cord or soft twine mesh would be easier on the fish than wire mesh.

I do not use my large traps in streams or public waters near me because it is illegal.

I'm sure Bill is right but here in NC you can get a "special devices" license to trap fish in public waters.

Bill, I appreciate your candor and the thought put into your reply.

As you may have read, 10-12 of my recently stocked adult SMB made it out into the feeder stream. While this feeder stream is "off the radar" for the officials, I had thought out my reply if I was compromised while on my search and rescue mission.

I'd basically have to stand before the man and explain how I was trying to get my fish back into my pond. These smallies look like a whales in a bathtub while they're in this stream. Even though some fish & game officials can be not so friendly, I'd have to think I could demonstrate that these smallies were not native to the stream. Especially as there's no existing gamefish in the stream.

Thanks again.

Why don't you just place a fence at one point in the stream?. Then go up stream of down stream of the fence and move a seine in the stream toward the fence until you entrap most everything in that section of stream.

Another option would be to stake out a fence with a funnel / net bag. Then just walk the stream bottom and chase everything into the funnel net.

I had thought of just seining from an upstream point down to my actual damn. If I could accomplish this, it would bunch the SMB up in a tight pool just outside the 4' horizontal inlet pipe. Then I could life the gate and "shoo" them back into the pond.

I will need a few friends to help out which shouldn't be a problem for the fence/seining.

I was also looking for a slightly more passive way (the traps) where I could check it periodically. This is also because after we had some dry days, the creek lost a foot or so of depth. This seemed to disperse the SMB as far as 1/8 mile up stream into the deeper pools.

My search and rescue project may take several methods, and I may not ever know if I got all of them back into my pond (although they're not hard to spot).

It was when I was discussing these plans with a friend that the topic of legality came up (cast nets, etc.)

I also have the "just fish 'em out" method to fall back on. So far, we've fished (2) of them out. So I think I have roughly 8-10 still left in the stream.

I missed your last comment.

Just out of curiosity, is the fence/seining/funnel bag stuff legal in PA?

As I mentioned, I think I'd take the calculated risk.

Well, I put my minnow trap in last night with a ball of bread in it.

I had 5 bull frog tadpoles in it this morning.

How deep and how far out should I put the trap out to try and catch some BG? The hole in the ends of this trap is about 2", is that big engough for the BG to enter, they were 1/2 when stocked in Oct?

Also, how long should I try to trap some before I determin that they are not in there?

I usually fish the traps in 1ft to 2 ft of water. If th trap has bright shiney wire mesth, I spray paint it a darker color so the brightness does not frighten the fish from entering the funnel. Set the trap parallel to shore. To increase the size of fish that it catchers, you can pinch the opening narrower and thus a little taller. If your bgill are too big to go into those traps, you should be able to easily catch them with a small hook (#12or10)and piece of garden worm under a bobber 3 to 4 ft deep.

Trap one or two days a week for the next two or three weeks intermixed with occasional bobber fishing. Thes two methods should provide good indication if bgill are present in your small pond.