Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Trout

Howdy-I know that Cecil is our leader in this subject and well deserved, but I would like to get an on going discussion on trout on this board. I currently raise a couple hundred trout and am just coming up on my first year. My pond is approximately 1/2 acre and I have a bottom diffuser and a top water splasher for the hot months. I also run 54 degree well water in July and a couple weeks in august to keep the stress down due to water temps. I have learned from the school of hard knocks with some help, but have lots to learn. All water tests have been completed and most people are envious of the results. I put in enough Fathead minnows that it is very hard to get them to feed on Silver Cup Trout Feed. My question is; can i just run my top water aerator for the nighttime hours during the hot weather or should i leave it on all the time. It is a Kasco unit designed for a 3 acre pond. If anyone is intrested in a Trout only topic it would save us all some time scanning all the topics. However, I learn something new regardless from these people.

Let me know- Jeff

Jeff, as is often the case, the answer is "it depends." On our farm we are constantly monitoring water temperature and dissolved oxygen through the summer months. We get a feel for the daily fluctuation of oxygen levels, and usually set timers to turn the surface aerators off for 4 to 12 hours a day, depending on density of the fish, water temperature, amount of vegetation in the pond, water flow, et cetera. You do need to be careful during extended cloudy periods, as you can have a cumulative drop in oxygen.

Generally, in low density recreational ponds you can shut down the aerator for the day light hours, but it is hard to give a totally up or down answer.

One added benefit that we have found from shutting down the units during the day (besides electrical savings) is that they tend to not clog anywhere near as fast. Yours may not clog at all in a recreational pond, but in high organic load ponds, and ponds with a lot of algae, they can really clog quick. Kascos are good units.

Mike Robinson
Keystone Hatcheries

Thanks Mike I really appreciate your response. I agree that it is critical during the Cloudy days and that is when I surrered by largest loss last year before I added the Kasco. It really surprised me that the bottom diffuser didn't provide the necessary O2 for that amount of fish. I will put it on a timer and see how I get along as I did learn from last year when you see the trout gasping for air on top it is too late. Mike, do you have any idea how much the Kasco units cost to run? I do know they are very low amperage and are much cheaper than my 115 amp bottom diffuser. I bought the one that i use from my fish supplier, who incidently warned me that the system i had wasn't enough during hot cloudy days. I, of couse being a (dip stick) thought he was old school and didn't know the bottom aerator was better. Maybe for other fish but I will guarntee you not trout$$$$. At any rate thank you for your assistance and knowledge.

Take Care- Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for the nice words but I think we both have about the same amount of experience. I've raised one crop through a year and am on my second one. Believe me I'm still learning.

Mike has more experience than lots and lots of us on this site combined -- so Mike's da man.

One more comment. I am more under the impression that bottom diffusers are better at mixing the water column than actually adding lots of oxygen. Am I right Mike?

Cecil-what a neat web site you have, and those are some fish. How many pounds of fish food do you feed for the total weight of fish in the pond per day. Also for tax purposes do you write off all expenses in raising these fish. I am thinking about letting a few people in for a fee so i can take advantage of some write offs. I also have the opportunity to raise some big fish for a Colorado resort that wants the 5lb plus fish. I really don't want to get into that however as i have to much to do as it is. Just wondered what the IRS opinion is if you know.

Jeff

Cecil, bottom diffusers are only 10-20% efficient at transferring oxygen directly to the water, where Kasco surface aerators are about 50% efficient. However, the deeper the water the more effective the bottom diffusers become. Many people are ill advised on the effectiveness of bottom diffuser systems in shallow water.

Jeff, Kasco has 3 sizes of surface aerators. The 1/2HP draws 5 amps @115 volts at start-up, and running amps are about 60% of that. The 3/4HP draws 6.7 amps @115 volts at start-up, and running amps are about 60% of that. The 2HP draws 11.0 amps @230 volts at start-up, and running amps are about 60% of that. Volts x Amps = Watts. Watts x 1000 = Kilowatts. Kilowatts x running hours = Kilowatt hours. Kilowatt hours x your local rate = cost.

Mike Robinson
Keystone Hatcheries

Mike - Your first paragraph in post Apr17,03; I've never heard it said better or nor more concise. Good one.

Mike-"wow" thanks for all the great info. I wish i would have found this site earlier and i would have saved some $$$$. I subscribe to Pond Boss and wish they had a article on trout once in a while, this very topic would be a good one. I would suggest that if you have time you would be a great consultant to the magazine. Do you think i should just keep the bottom diffuser off except during the winter to keep a small area open? Heck at the rate of O2 that thing is putting out its worthless for trout most of the time. My Kasco is 2 hp, so for my small pond that should be plenty of D.O. Again, thanks for your comments. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Sincerely-Jeff

Jdmcalf,

Here are your questions and my reponses:

How many pounds of fish food do you feed for the total weight of fish in the pond per day?

I may go through only one bag of 40 or 50 pound feed a month for my trout. I only put in up to about 100 total trout of three species per year, although I may be upping that as demand picks up. My fish are already a pound when I put them in with a few exceptions. So for total poundage you actually feed larger fish less than smaller fish. I'm really not sure what my carrying capacity is in this pond with the flow through and use of aerators but I do monitor oxygen and ammonia. I purposely made it deep for its surface area and relatively small to keep it from warming up to fast. I will be experimenting with suspending shade cloth over the pond this summer to reduce warming even more.

My biggest expense is the electricity, and when I am pumping well water it runs about a hundred U.
S. dollars a month. I try to hold off on pumping well water until May, and can stop pumping in early October.

Also for tax purposes do you write off all expenses in raising these fish?

I include the fish supplying business in with my taxidermy business and right off supplies, fish feed, the whole works as expenses. Don't know if that is right, but the wife does our taxes on a computer program and we haven't had any problems yet.

I don't know much about fee fishing although I have lots of friends that help harvest the fish by hook and line when I need to. (The list keeps growing!)I also have a list of folks that help with two weekends of highway cleanup that belong to our trout club, and they have first chance at the fish out. (The trout club has nothing to do with my pond)

I only fish the pond in the fall as I don't want to take the chance of stressing any of the fish before harvest, and that is when they are in their full spawning colors (all males). I have had people offer to pay me though.

Speaking of fee fishing, there is an interesting loop hole in my state that I could take advantage of if I was unsrupulous. The regs say I could enter any of my fish as a state record as long as I do not charge to fish my pond. I had one brook trout that came out of my pond a few ounces short of the state record (the one on the web page), and know I will probably have some state record size brook trout this fall. Do you think that would be fair to anglers that fish public lakes? I don't considering I feed them.

JD, I don't think diffusers are worthless though. Even if oxgen output is not as high as other aerators they serve one very important function. They mix the water column very efficiently and allow the break down of fish waste, and preclude any oxygen layer on the bottom etc. However it's possible that with my flow through of 51.6 F. water at 38 to 45 gpms that aerated water goes to the bottom and I wouldn't have an oxgen devoid layer. I don't know but I believe in the maxum if it ain't broke don't fix it and the trout made it through a hot summer last year.

diffusers also make the addition of beneficial bacteria more effecient and as Mike says they are more efficient in deeper water.

Surface aerators can have one disadvantage with trout. They can warm the water in hot weather more as it has more air contact. As Mike to some extent says, "It depends." There are pros and cons to everything.

I would love to see Mike do an article on his trout raising for the magazine too. However he has a business and may not want to devulge too many details for his competitors. But then again maybe not. I wouldn't mind doing an article myself just to show what I am doing too. Both articles would interesting to our neighbors to the north.

Whoops. In the following sentence in my previous post it should have said preclude any oxygen devoid layer rather then "preclude any oxygen layer."

"They mix the water column very efficiently and allow the break down of fish waste, and preclude any oxygen layer on the bottom etc."

Cecil-very intresting comments and i do appreciate them. ok, so should i run my bottom diffuser from time to ttime to help with the fish waste, leaves, ect. I again am coming arround to your thinking but thought that with the 2 hp Kasco that that would help with the waste issue due to the tremendous amount of oxygen for a small pond. Also of note this past weekend my father in law loves to fish but won't cast and reel as i require anyone that fishes in my lake must do. Obviously we had 1/2 dozen swallow the hook and cut them off and left them in the fish. I just walked out to the pond and found my third dead one this p.m. I guess it is cheaper to let him do that rather than one of them there divorces. Wondering what everyone elses success with this method would be? Looking forward to some comments.

Take Care- Jeff Markel

JD,

It depends on how deep your pond is if your Kasco will do the job of breaking down nutrients all the way to the bottom. Surface aerators tend to only go down so far (I think 6 or 8 feet -- Mike can clarify this).

If your Kasco will draw up water from the bottom and it is not too deep then it is fine. I have seen one surface aerator that draws water up in deeper water with an extension tube. Not sure what brand it was.

When it really gets hot I sometimes run my diffusers only at night to keep water warming down. If you are not feeding with pellets and your fish density is low and your pond is fairly large than the breakdown of fish waste may not be as crucial either. I'm feeding a couple pounds of feed a day into this small 1/12th acre pond and that can add up over time. Just as last year I have a build up of filamentous algae on the rocks down a few feet, and it is starting to break loose and float up. However, if it is the same as last year, I will net it off the surface for a few weeks and then it just vanishes. I think it may be the bacteria I add finally multiplying enough, and competing for nutrients, or the water is slightly warmer for optimum growth of the bacteria over the algae. Or both. I don't know for sure.

One lure that is deadly on trout and facilitates catch and release is a panfish jig with a tail that flexes alot. I just cast it out and let it sink to the bottom on a tight line just in case a fish hits it right away. Then I bounce it in and the hit is unmistakable.

No concerns about secrets with trout...time is my big problem. I probably have at most 5 spare minutes a day this time of year!

I think most surface aerators & fountains draw from the top 5 feet of the water column. Our aeration philosophy with trout rearing ponds is that if you have bottom diffusers, surface aerators and a good water flow going most of the time, if one goes down the other 2 will get the trout through until the problem is discovered. We do this with most of our high density culture situations.

Cecil makes a good point about warming the water. That is another reason that we shut off our surface aerators during the day.

Cecil and Mike-you both have answered my questions and again I appreciate it a bunch. Look forward to picking your brain in the future. I'll keep you posted on how I get along this summer. Cecil I don't feed hardly at all as as you are probbly aware from previous posts I have a good FatHead minnow balance and they just don't need all that much feed. I will feed ocassionally if people want to see them feed or if i know i'll be gone for a bit and not fishing.

Take Care JD