Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations In the beginning

Just started project. Thought I would get advice on what you would have done from beginning to prevent future problems. 10 acre pond. 150 acres steep mountain watershed. Spring fed. Mid TN. Experienced builder. Good clay bottom. Lake in the bottom of narrow hollow. Surrounded by tall wooded ridges. Steep banks. 25 ft deep at dam, wide and open, but narrow and shallow at spring fed creek entrance, prob will be some marsh in wooded area there. Really wet steady runnoff Dec.-May, not so good July-Fall. Purpose? Mixed use: wildlife, waterfowl and nice fishing. What should I do now for: 1)erosion control? 2)Silt in runnoff? 3)Starter plants? 4)soil condition? 5)algae prevention. What would you have done if you had it to do again?

Hello Pondsea and welcome to Pond Boss.

Hold on and the experts will get to your questions.

Got any photos? We likey photos.

pondsea:

Welcome to the forum! You've already made a huge positive step by finding this website and asking. If you haven't already, read through this site as much as possible, buy the books, subscribe to the magazine, (those costs aren't much compared with what you'll have in your lake) and check out the following two sites.

http://www.in.nrcs.usda.gov/pdf%20files/PONDS.PDF

http://www.tnfish.org/FarmPondManagement_TWRA/PondConstructionManagement_TWRA.html

Lots of other states have good info also that you can find by searching for pond construction / planning / etc...

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1114/ANR-1114.pdf

Depending upon your rainfall, I would worry about ensuring you have enough spillway to handle a rain event. I don't know; but would imagine much of the rain hitting a 150 acre steep mountain watershed would run off fast - especially if it gets much snow or snow melt. I don't know if it is possible to sod your shoreline in advance or if sediment ponds are feasible options in your area?

Doing my lake over again, I would definitely have done more planning, built sediment ponds with pipe (plus emergency) spillways during initial construction, made sure there was a lip so trash fish couldn't get into pond through water running over the spillway, tried to figure out some way to ensure pond was empty until ready to be full (either pipe through dam, leave trench, or something - not sure what - all those options have drawbacks), done a better job in getting every area well sodded, planned out landscaping in advance, trusted my contractor's judgement regarding depth of one ledge, probably would have purchased my own laser level, might have purchased some hybrid striped bass fingerlings to stock at same time as largemouth fingerlings, etc. ... I wonder if you could have smallmouth bass or trout in a high spring fed lake? One caution is that springs can go both ways (either putting water in or taking water out) depending upon pressure. I had small springs in mine that are fairly deep; but they don't seem to be affecting water level much either way.

Just read all you can read and learn all you can learn... Now, I'll stop and allow the experts here to give good advice.

Welcome to the forum, pondsea.

Do you know what kind of fish you would like to stock? One input that would be useful is what range of water temperatures you can expect to see throughout the year. Depending on the pond elevation and amount of spring input, your water may be cool enough to use some interesting stocking options if they appeal to you. So finding out (Summer) water temps from similarly fed ponds nearby, or knowledge of what fish populations they have (especially if they are out of the ordinary, like trout living year-round) would be useful.

P.S. I'm waiting on the experts, too.

Thnks. Kind of you to take the time to help a guy out. World of info since i stumbled onto this site. As for temps: Pond will run east-west, with south side a really steep wooded shade for most of day. A cool evening breeze always stirs down the hillsides at dusk, even in summer. So I expect water temps to be moderate in summer, but on the warm side nonetheless. Too warm for trout probably. I would like to have LMB but would be great if I could hold some small mouth too. If possible would like to have bluegill to fish with the kids.

Spillway may be an issue. THe builder is planning on 100 yr flood planning, due to size. Runoff is substantial in multi-day major rain. One side of the pond has a steep pasture in fescue, so we have built a large drainage ditch sloping along the side of the hill to slow it down and direct it better. But nothing I can do about the wooded terrain. I have tried to walk all the watershed hillsides to look at the runoff ditches. Some of them are 2-3' deep. But they are mostly a long distance behind the actual pond itself. It seems like the mountains fill up with water and then it starts flowing out of the springs below. I have a few springs right in the bottom of the pond, one on the bank of the pond, and one at the back entrance that forms a small brook flowing into the pond itself. This brook stops flowing in the dry season.

As for landscaping, I could use any suggestions. The water level will come to the treeline on one side of the pond, but it will be somewhat below it on the other side. Erosion control may be an issue there. It is the bank facing the south, so mostly in the sun. Looking at the results so far from the construction, the banks under the waterline are mostly clay and packing down really hard after it dries up. But I am worried about erosion from spring rains along the shoreline before i can get it under control.

I will post some pictures with my next message to give some idea about it so that anyone can make recommedations before I screw it up.
Tom

welcome tom, sounds like a great project and look forward to some pics, you'll get great advice here.

If I had it to do over again, I would make sure that the dam is cored. Mine wasn't and it leaks.

I know this is stupid question, but can anyone tell me how to post some pictures on the forum?
Tom

Here is the link.

Posting Photos on Pondboss

[img][IMG]http://i259.photobuck [img][/img]

Here are a couple of pictures to start that show what my plans are. now that I have the hang of it I will post a few more to show progress.
Tom

The pictures posted show a view to the east of the mountain watershed with a spring emptying into the hollow I am planning to dam. The other is looking down the hollow to where the dam should connect the two hillsides.
Tom

By the way, thanks Chris.

Welcome aboard, Pondsea!
Man, what a natural topo for a pond (or...lake)!
I don't remember the exact numbers, but a dam at 25 feet high in my area was right at the height where it would require a structural engineer's design and annual inspection.

Pay attention to properly establishing good, permanent vegetation at the dam....immediately after the equipment is done and gone.
-
ps; scale back your pix to 640 wide and the horizontal scroll won't be required for most of us (or maybe 700 max...I can't remember if 700 still fits)

Thanks brettski,
I don't think the dam itself will be built 25', but I am guestimating that from the top of the waterline near the dam the water depth might still go down that far in the middle, because I am hoping to build a substantial trench out there, unless I hit limestone. But I thought it was best anyway to consult engineer before starting since it would hold sizeable amount of water. We are working on ideas for the spillway right now. I hope not to have to concrete the entire thing, so looking at alternatives. Appreciate the ideas on vegetation. What do you think about gettng down a good seeding of rye grass and some clover as well for wildlife? Especially on the back slope. Would that be okay for the water's edge also for quick erosion control?
Tom

You can get as many opinions on what is best vegetation at the dam as there are forum members. Not that this is all bad, but it can be hard to narrow it down. In my book, your NRCS guy and/or regional state biologist would be best to consult for your specific geography. My point about doing it asap after the equipment leaves is the one to make particular note about. At that point, the top soil is still very loose and there might even be track marks from the dozer to help hold some seed. Have your seed, fertilizers, and mulch/straw mats ready in advance of their departure and allocate the time to do it promptly. Theo has a great idea with renting the straw chopper to mulch. He will kick in his thoughts.

"things I would change" thread

Tom,

On my pond, there are a few things that I would do differently. One is to expect ten times the silt that I planned on. I dug pits before my culverts to catch the silt, and I dig them out again with my backhoe when they get full, but I can't keep up when it's rains for long periods of time. I also dug areas extra deep where I expected the silt to build up, but now I wish I had gone even deeper!!!!

I have two culverts that bring most of the runoff into my pond. They handle the watershed very nicely, but I only put one length of each in. I need to double their length as they are creating erosion where the water comes out of the culvert before going into the pond. I've tried concrete, both sacks and rubble, but it's not enough and "too little, too late." Now I plan to buy two more culverts, dig out the concrete rip rap that I put in and lengthen those culverts another full length of pipe each. That should put me right next to the shoreling and where I should have been in the first place.

Since my pond has only been done for about a year, it's too early to tell what else I did wrong. Overall, I'm thrilled with the results and absolutely love having it. Now I'm in the waiting game to see how my fish population does. In five years, I should know for sure!!!

Good luck and thanks for posting the pictures. It's a beautiful location and it will be absolutely amazing when the pond is done.

Eddie

pondsea,

Beautiful area for a pond! I can just imagine it when the grass and trees are green.

Ponds that go downhill with the deepest part right at the dam have special concerns. This is especially so if the water will be in excess of ~10 feet at the dam. The water pressure is so high the dam must be keyed very deeply and the base very wide. If that hollow has a great flow of water after a moderate rain, even more extrordinary precautions will be in order.

Good luck, and keep us posted on the progress. The more pictures, the better!

Great photos Pondsea. Beautiful location. I like the fog in the tree line. That's one of most favorite occurances is when fog hangs in the tree line - it seems so mysterious and inviting.

I posted a group of pictures on progress in a new thread called "pictures of progress on Tom's pond