Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Muddy 3 Acre Pond

Hey guys, I have been reading from this site for sometime now and got allot of great information but this is my first post. Just bad about asking for help I guess.

My pond is almost 3 acres and is 7 years old. I have it stocked with LMB, BG, crappie, red ear, and CC. The fishing just get worse and worse every year. This pond is very muddy with visibility right now about 4 or 5 inches. I have done the water test and the clay particals will never settle out. Put a little gypsum and it will settle out in an hour.

I do have a problem with the wind causing allot of wave action and eroding the bank on the north side. I have tried getting vegetation started but when the water rises, the plants will not come back. I guess I will have to build a wall with some railroad ties or put some large rock to buffer the wave action.

Now my question....When I get that problem fixed how much Alum and hydrated lime would I need to treat this 2.75 acre pond which is about an average depth of 10 to 12 feet?
Looking forward to hearing from you experts, thanks
I would add some pics but not sure how right now

Welcome to Pond Boss!

You'll have to wait for the experts to show up for the real scoop. I can only tell you it takes a LOT of minerals to harden up soft, acidic rain water.

The most economical way to harden up the water in a pond that large is to borrow or buy well water. Some hard well water has lots of dissolved calcium, and will clear up a pond in no time. (If local well water is soft, it may not help much.)

Another thing that helps is to avoid flow through of fresh rain water. It will flush out your minerals, and your water may never clear up. As long as your well water or treated water aren't flushed out by rain, the pond will theoretically stay clear forever with just 1 treatment.

If your pond water is real soft (having a low mineral load), wave action will keep it muddy constantly. If your water is more saturated with minerals, wave action will muddy it up temporarily, but it will clear up in a few hours to a few days, depending on mineral load.

I have the same problem as you do but am slowly getting vegetation to grow. This is more of a question. Would the vegetation grow better along the shore if you fertilized the pond? Here is another question have you considered cattails along the shore you are having the erosion? Cattails are hard to control but once they take root will really tend to buffer the shoreline. If you did plant the cattails which I am sure many would think is a crazy idea could you control them?

I have in fact tried to get cattails started for the past 3 years and they do good in the summer and when the water gets high in the spring, it covers them by about 18 inches and they will not come back. Your right most people say dont get cattails started but I cant even get them to grow.
Another problem to me is that when the vegetation...if I could get it going dies out in the winter, then the wind blows and muddies the water back up.
Just very frustrated right now...just been a money pit so far and have never had the enjoyment I was hoping to have. Rip rap rock would be the answer but going around a 3 acre pond would be expensive.

Sounds like rock riprap is what you need, especially for the wind swept shoreline areas.

Have you tried to find free cement from road construction? You may not like the way it looks as well but the cost would be much less. You might be able to have it hauled to your place just for the highway people to get rid of it.

Planting vegetation is great for erosion control, but won't help muddy water much if at all. That's because it only takes a bucket or 2 of fine suspended clay to muddy up a large pond. If there is a sufficient mineral load in the water, wave-generated turbidity will settle back down in a few hours to a couple of days.

So would you reccomend the vegetation? Does this mean that once a year he is going to have to add the aluminum sulfate?

If erosion is a problem, vegetation can help. But vegetation will not help chronic turbidity.

If the pond water is diluted due to flow-through of soft rain water, minerals will have to be replaced if one wants to keep the water fairly clear. I pretty much gave up on mine. I spent hundreds of dollars on alum, gypsum, and lime only to watch it spill over my levees and into the ditch. You can't win in high rainfall areas.

Not very encouraging.

Bobad this is a great analysis - turbidity and it's relation to hard/soft water. I learned a lot here and this post needs to be archived...I like your theory with the well water, also. In retrospect I found my ponds cleared up almost immediately when I irrigate from the well. I just figured I was introducing clear water so it helped mitigate turbidity. I was wrong, this makes FAR more sense. Thanks - good stuff here for us all!

Tieman - I understand your frustration. One issue I would definitely address is your North shoreline. Bank erosion is bad - you can help solve this as suggested by adding rip rap. Limestone boulders cost around $20/T here, and you're right it can get expensive in a hurry. Depending upon the length of your shoreline you are looking at a few thousand bucks minimum, but it's a permanent solution. Rip Rap is a different story - much cheaper, or free in many cases. All you have to pay is a hauling fee, but be aware you may have a lot of rebar sticking out of the concrete which can be a trip hazard and is definitely hook hungry when fishing around it as we can all attest to. If you contact a construction company or trucking company many of them know about secret stashes of concrete rip rap just waiting to be hauled away. A truck can typically haul at least 15 T if not much more per delivery. True, delivery costs can be $50 depending upon the mileage, but it's a significantly cheaper route.

Your turbidity issue may improve by stabilizing your windswept shoreline. As far as the water chemistry goes, it seems if you are exchanging water that frequently any ammendments to the water by way of alum or gypsum would be superfluous and expensive. I think you should treat what you can - the erosion issue - as cheaply as possible and wait to see the results.

I hope we've been helpful - please keep posting questions we are all here to help you get that pond you're dreaming of!

One last thing - Call Shawn Banks for help. He's a great pond management professional just North of you.
816.804.5604

Thanks teehjaeh57 for the suggestions...the rip rap from highway department etc. is probaly plent availible around here but as you mentioned the rebar and unsightly looking is really not what I would like. The what we call rip around here are the large limestone rocks that would work great...but the problem is that north shorline is aroung 400 feet long. So I might end up doing that,

I manage a railroad tie yard and have available to me some really nice used ties for $5.50 each delivered as long as I buy a whole load which is 240. I used some of these to fix a problem area on the shallow end of my pond a few years ago and they worked great and looked just as great. Although I dont like to thought of all that hard work may be an option that might be as cheap if not cheaper that the rock.

What I did was set ties vertical in cement about 8.5 ifeet apart and then come along and stack ties 7 high behind the uprights so that each tie set on half of the upright. I put roofing paper on the inside of the wall and backfilled, sowed grass seed and it looks pretty good. I need to figure out how to post pics and I will show you guys what I got here,

Please post pics! We love pics - I don't believe we have structure/erosion control photos using RR ties. I think the ties are a great solution - use what resources one has on hand. Any concerns with oil from the ties in the pond? Am I being overly cautious? Probably nothing to worry about...

TJ:

Just like a lot of things in life, I think it all depends on how many ties are used, and the volume of water in the pond.

I believe it's all about quantity. Heck, even drinking too much clean water could kill ya.

I may have figured out how to post pics...but most of my pictures are to large. Anyway here is my mud hole

Tieman, There should be no more rebar in the concrete MoDot would deliver. Missouri passed a law a few years ago that requires all metal be removed from waste concrete. All building demolitions and road removals have to bust up the concrete to seperate all metals now.

I did a sample test of both Alum and Gypsum. I was more impressed with Gypsum for my water condition.
However, a day later the water in the gypsum sample turned a tainted brown tint. Would that be from too much gypsum in the sample?
I added about 1 oz. of gypsum to 16 oz. of muddy water.
I have added before and after photos of the results of the gypsum.