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Joined: Apr 2010
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Back again! shocked

After identifying my current situation (discussed here ), I am now on to the "treatment options".

First, the latest pics.



I think the gentlemen in my "Identify" thread are correct regarding the hydrilla - I too now think it is elodea.

So,
Sago near the "beach"
Elodea out in the "flats" (~4 feet deep)
A constantly forming and collapsing floating algae bloom
A HEAVY planktonic algae bloom overall (the pea soup look)
Shoreline "stuff"
Lately - some "foamy" bright green floater stuff on the shoreline (FA?)
Still a few signs of duckweed but that seems to be drowned out by the other stuff at the moment.

I have used a quart of Blue Aquashade in this pond about a month ago.

This weekend I spot treated the floating mat areas with granulated Cutrine Plus (~ 2 lbs) (from the pond advisor 2 years ago - never even opend) and some sprayed on Copper Sulfate on the heavy floating algae areas (less than 1 lb).

Aerator is running 24/7 unless the temp gets > 80 (manual switching).

My goal this year is to just clean up the pond. I can see FHM swimming and I have TONS of frogs along with a pair of Terns that dive-bomb the pond surface all day long - so the current food chain must be doing OK.

After some reading, I'm thinking "no more CuSO4" - anyone know what to do with a 50lb bag of it?

I have the granulated Cutrine Plus - but that seems to be primarily for the rooted algae types. Will it have any effect on the Sago and Elodea.

I forgot to mention that I have leaches like crazy - at least around the pea-stone beach. I waded in and pulled some of the grass the other day and had them all over my feet. They didn't seem to draw blood though - have read that there are "decay" leeches that just eat rotting organic matter - could that be these? Either way - it has really turned me off to swimming at the moment.


Am planning on donning some booties and a wetsuit and "harvesting" those large floating nests of Sago and Elodea (mind those leeches sick ) - can't really reach most from the shore.

As mentioned in the aeration thread, I do have a Kasco water circulator. Any reason to fire that up for a while in addition to the bottom circulator? It uses a lot of electricity and needs a new bottom stand - but I'm anxious to accelerate the water quality improvement.

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Cutrine Plus is chelated Copper, primarily an algaecide. I kind of thought that was Elodea, but unless you are holding it in your hand you never know. I personally would knockdown the algae, let it set a bit or settle down and then hammer the pond with either Diquat or Fluridone. I just don't think you have a single remedy treatment here bud. In fact, I know you don't. All that dead material is going to sink on you also. Hope you have no attachments to any of the current inhabitants. Once you make all of the undesirable stuff dead and gone, you need to get busy and replace them with something or prevent them returning or something else from taking thier place infesting. What you will have is a bunch of CO@, sunlight and a gigantic nutrient load.

Last edited by The Pond Frog; 06/27/10 11:51 PM.
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PF

Tell me if I have this right:

Big nutrient load isn't going anywhere, it's going to be used by something [FA, Planktonic Algae, vegetation]. Does it make sense to choose a vegetation type [cattails, pondweed] and encourage it's growth to tie up the nutrients and prevent the huge algae blooms and FA mats? I realize every pond is different, but my water is in great shape without a hint of FA or dense plankton blooms BECAUSE I have about 10% coverage of horned, american and sago pondweed. My understanding is the pondweed is tying up the excess nutrients from fish waste and my pellets and leaving nothing behind for the FA or plankton blooms. I'd rather have a modest amount of pondweed than FA or dense blooms anyday. Let me know if you think this might be a solution for Elksin.


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That is what I try to do, a long term biological fix. Otherwise you are just retreating symptoms over and over, reloading nutrients and possibly trading one weed for another.

For example, in one pond I had total Eur Milfoil infestation. It was unfishable, and the LMB were starving from no line of sight feeding. The shorelines were pristine. I eradicated that milfoil and introduced creeping primrose to the shoreline. I benefitted in four ways minimum.

Although I still have milfoil fragments and an occaisional small plant, the primrose has taken over the abundance of nutrients. It has not grown back to any nuisance levels in 5 years and counting, where the primrose is going where I want it, along the shore and easy to eradicate manually where I don't want it.

I have opened up the water. LMB now have access to food, and more important it is almost 100% fishable, even the primrose provides some nice fishing opportunites.

I have created shade and forage cover. The primrose not only inhales nutrients, it covers a lot of surface area, but not much underneath, so unlike milfoil, fish can swim and hide underneath in the shade. Lilies, and pondweed are even better for that. I have introduced both of them as well.

I have also reduced the bad seasonal fa. Between the nutrient uptake from my floaters and the shade they provide, cooler water temps as well, less evaporation. But the plants to transpire, so that is probably a wash.

This was a 5+ acre pond that was poorly planned, mismanaged and ruined when I got the call. It was properly planted. First step was eradication of unwanted vegetation. Second step was addressing what was causing that and how to neutralize that if not benefit the fishery. Tinkering with the fish balance at that juncture was pointless. I needed to address there cover, feeding and the ability for people to fish first.

I had several constaints in this pond. No chemicals, a very low budget and zero help from the HOA. My compensation was total control, full access to entire gated community in richest area of my region. Side jobs, working with state for water body compliance, and more side jobs. Ended up being my #1 customer base.

My last but not least task is shorelines and beautification. 50% of shoreline blocked by junk willows and cattails. Down to 25%. Soon to be less. I just chip away at that in cooler weather. 360 degree access and a horsetrail around the pond. One easy catch kiddie pond. I'd say target date 2011 Oct.

But as far as finding something else I would term a little more fish and pond or customer friendly for nutrient uptake, I fully endorse and use that strategy for long term results. Sometimes I actually increase the planktonic blooms as well. Then I have it all.

Last edited by The Pond Frog; 06/29/10 09:48 AM.
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Well after being shamed for my silly water current question - I'm a little shy - but what the heck!

So it would appear the plant that I think we have identified as elodea is on the move - but want a definitive on the ID (if possible from these pics).






Here is a picture from 6/26


And same region from 7/7 (complete with the phantom pirate wake! crazy)



JHAP gave warning about mechanical removal of the stuff (if that is what it is).

So - what to do. It is mid-july and the aeration is running 24/7 except on the really hot days. Only thing of consequence in the pond to my knowledge are FHM.

Do I live with the encroachment this year and try to catch it early next year?
Do I treat it this year (in high water temps and full sun) with the risk of a lot of floating minnows?
Do I live with it permanently as a nutrient sucker (as pond frog is suggesting I think)?



I should have mentioned earlier that the west side of the pond (which is where this stuff is growing the heaviest) is probably where the runoff (if any) is coming from the above field. There is a ~250 ft long by 3 foot high berm that is about 25 feet from the shear face of the old quarry wall that was specifically installed to fend off the field runoff. You can see it with a bunch of "dots" that are sapling pines in this pic.


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This place TAMU Plant Database is great for PondMeisters. Pay attention to how the leaves are located around the main stem.

If it was my pond, I'd try like heck to eradicate it and replace it with other, more friendly pond plants (types of pondweed).

Chemical means because I think if it is Eloda, mechanical means will just spread it unless you are VERY careful and thorough. This year while there are only inexpensive minnows in the pond vs. expensive gamefish. (not saying that the minnows are cheap, just less expensive than LMB/BG or other fish.)


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It is Elodea (Elodea canadensis) aka common water weed. Isn't that a real original and unique common name? Others can better help with chemical control.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/13/10 09:00 AM. Reason: added common name

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Thanks Bill. Hadn't had a chance to get out there and check the leaf count but the pics (taken before I knew what I was looking for) looked like three.

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Looks like American Elodea. Not Brazilian. Not Hydrilla. Nice photos.

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Yep looks like Elodea. As I said I have had good luck with a Reward/Cutrine mix in treating Elodea. I treated my pond (which at the time of treatment had 70-80 percent coverage of Elodea) in small sections so as to avoid an oxygen crash. The Reward/Cutrine mix worked wonders. I'm no expert though so if anyone has a better suggestion for the chemicals to use then I would go by their suggestion.

Unfortunately Elodea has little to no monetary value.

I even tried lobbying congress to change the food pyramid to include Elodea but my bill never got out of congressional committee.




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Well bless your heart for trying to win over the legislators, though, JHAP!


Todd La Neve

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Doubt you will be seeing it at the Pizza Hut all you can eat salad bar anytime soon. Reward it with Reward. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 pond wait a week or two, comeback for more.

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Originally Posted By: ElksInWI
Well after being shamed for my silly water current question - I'm a little shy - but what the heck!

So it would appear the plant that I think we have identified as elodea is on the move - but want a definitive on the ID (if possible from these pics).






Here is a picture from 6/26


And same region from 7/7 (complete with the phantom pirate wake! crazy)



JHAP gave warning about mechanical removal of the stuff (if that is what it is).

So - what to do. It is mid-july and the aeration is running 24/7 except on the really hot days. Only thing of consequence in the pond to my knowledge are FHM.

Do I live with the encroachment this year and try to catch it early next year?
Do I treat it this year (in high water temps and full sun) with the risk of a lot of floating minnows?
Do I live with it permanently as a nutrient sucker (as pond frog is suggesting I think)?



I should have mentioned earlier that the west side of the pond (which is where this stuff is growing the heaviest) is probably where the runoff (if any) is coming from the above field. There is a ~250 ft long by 3 foot high berm that is about 25 feet from the shear face of the old quarry wall that was specifically installed to fend off the field runoff. You can see it with a bunch of "dots" that are sapling pines in this pic.


I can't help much with the pond weeds, but just want to say that you have an awesome looking pond!



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