Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants new pond owner

I purchased a house three years ago with a .25 acre pond on it that was stocked with hybrid white bass, LMB, BG, big sunfish, catfish. This year I had a battle with watershield and water lilies. I started catching crappies and smaller bass (10 to 14") but nothing of decent size. The water is only about 6 feet deep with a mud bottom and very dark water. The fish were fed pellet food for several years and respond like piranahs. I want to make it better fishing for the kids but I need advice on what to do. The kids catch lots a big sunfish with worms but the bass are few and far in between. although I can catch them regularly using rubber worms or buzzbaits. This year I started catching crappie with jigs. Is this a problem and what can I do to improve the pond for fishing. The pond is also loaded with crayfish, leapard frogs, japanese snails and bullfrogs. Help!

Not necessarily a recommendation, but have you analyzed the possible cost/benefit of renovation?

Six feet deep and dark water doesn't leave you as many options as you would have with 10 feet and good clarity.

Welcome, Ken.

Hmmmm. Sounds pretty nice for 1/4 acre (heck, for any size) from your description.

What's your idea of better fishing? Are there species you have now you don't want? Which species do you want to be bigger or more numerous (to an extent these may not be mutually compatible)?

Do you know what species of catfish are present?

I assume by "White Bass Hybrids" you mean White Bass x Striped Bass crosses (Morone chrysops x Morone saxitillis) - what are commonly referred to here as HSB (except for us "Wiper" cretins).

BTW, loads of frogs, snails, and crayfish sounds like the pond's healthy.

I havnt thought of renovation but it is on 14 acres so anything is possible. I believe the catfish are channel cats, maybe 16" to 24" and the hybrids are striped bass / white bass around 18" or so. Each year they decrease in numbers but I think they are sterile anyway. The pond is fed from a two acre pond across a public road from my property. I usually carry a bucket when I fish and move the sunfish and crappie from my pond to the neighboring pond. I have lots of cover from lillies and a few fallen trees that I put in but the LMB are still small. Can I even grow a decent size bass in a pond this small. Even though the water is dark and has steep banks with roots and so on, you can see fish on their beds 2 feet down. I do have a few muskrats that are cracking the snails and eating the meat. Should I use a weed killer to get rid of the lilies and watershield. The pond was 60% covered this summer even though I cut them below the surface with hedge trimmers in July.

Do you think that the two acre pond above you releases fish into your pond?

Are the owners of the two acre pond bringing you any fish?

Dont think so. The pond is a public overflow pond from a nearby 75 acre lake. It gets fished almost everyday in the spring and summer, but mostly by locals fishing for crappie and bluegills. I guess that some small fish could get to me during high water but I havn't seen any. It is also shallow and dark, with lots of cattails and brush along the banks. I have caught a few bass from it, but only up to about a pound or so.

That is a salient point because your management plan will sometimes be dependent on what kinds of fish are entering.

You are correct that the hybrids or "HSB" as we call them, are sterile.

Have you considered the possibility that the catfish are contributing to the muddy water?

The water isn't really muddy, just dark. Looks more like tanic acid from decomposition from the oak trees. If you collect the water in a glass, it is relatively clear with participates floating around, but I wouldn't call it muddy. The previous owner raised fish in a swimming pool and then stocked to pond. He also put water hiacynths in each spring and removed them in the fall. I did not do this, he claimed that it would keep the water clearer.

oh, btw I have an aerator in the pond too. The crappie congregate around the bubbles.

It's just stain from the oak leaves. If the PH is normal (apparently so, as there is a good diversity of fish and critters), there is no problem with low PH or low DO. Shade around the pond can exaggerate the appearance of the stain. If it was in full sun, it would look a lot more clear. The stain would still be visible, just lighter.

Maybe cut some overhanging limbs and/or plant some flowers or shrubs to act as leaf barriers.

From what I've read 60% is way too much cover. I believe that coverage should not exceed about 25%. The Pond Boss website has a great book about pond weeds that I highly recommend. Click here for link to book.

For general info regarding weeds here's a link to a pretty good article Weed control article . It was written several years ago though so I would wait for one of the forum experts to chime in about newer/better herbicides. We have several folks on this forum that are experts in this field that will hopefully chime in and address using a chemical control.

Manually controlling a fast growing weed is a difficult proposition at best. I can empathize with you because I spent much of 2006 doing battle with Elodea using manual methods... I lost the battle. For 2007 I am going to use a chemical control.

Here's a link to one answer regarding Lilys from one of the PB pros... link

Experts, any suggestions?

WWW.killakeweeds.com was recommended by another pond owner in PA. He uses the granular prescritption of Aquacide pellets and claims to be mostly weed free. Will this harm the fish and does anyone know if this really works. I believe there is something that will bond to the participates and cause them to sink but I don't remember what it is or where I heard it and whether it is safe to use.

In the post that I linked above Kellie Duffie recommended Habitat Herbicide for lilies which from what I understand is harmless to fish.

I found this about Habitat during a search...

"Habitat herbicide controls vegetation by affecting enzymes found only in plants, not in humans, animals, birds, fish or insects. It is readily absorbed through leaves, stems and roots and is translocated rapidly throughout plants, with accumulation in the meristematic regions. Treated plants stop growing soon after spray application. Necrosis becomes evident about two weeks after treatment. Time to death of treated weeds depends on size, species treated and weather conditions at application.

I noticed that Kellie Duffie has not posted here in a couple of months, can anyone else help out here?

Sorry. Been mighty busy, but still occasionally check-in. What was the question??

Hi Kellie:

Here is Ken's question:
Should I use a weed killer to get rid of the lilies and watershield. The pond was 60% covered this summer even though I cut them below the surface with hedge trimmers in July.

And since we have your attention I have a question for you.. would Reward be your first choice for controlling Elodea?

Thanks in advance for your answers to both questions.

Lilies and watershield generally represent an aesthetic or navigation nuisance for humans (IMO). But, I doubt if they threaten the wellbeing of fish. From an underwater-perspective, lilies and Brasinia provide beneficial mid-summer shade without rendering the underlying water unusable for fish. The same cannot be said for invasive submerged species (where 20-30% coverage is the trigger-point for concern). Basically, the motivation to control lily-type plants is a personal decision.
If one decides to treat lilies or watershield, I generally suggest the use of HABITAT – which may be used to selectively target specific areas or “boat lanes”. For various reasons, I’m not an advocate of the AQUACIDE product (pelletized 2,4-D).

On the other question: The unique circumstances and objectives associated with any given pond are used to determine my product recommendations. Both diquat and fluridone may be effective for treating Elodea. However, flow-through potential and/or the desire to leave some vegetation (intact) may dictate the use of diquat instead of fluridone. Then again, livestock’s utilization of the pond may limit the use of diquat. In short, product-selection is a process: 1) determine the objective(s), 2) evaluate candidate-products’ use-restrictions and potential to offer desired results, 3) assess the site’s physical variables (transient water, depth of targeted plants, etc.) that may impact product-efficacy, and 4) determine if appropriate equipment is available to effectively apply the selected product.
That was a long and semi-vague answer for such a short question.....