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#495180 08/22/18 12:54 PM
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I have an approximately 1/3 acre pond with a dual diffuser aerator running from a gast 0523. I also have a windmill powered aerator but it is very sporadic given a large tree line to the west of my pond and I’m probably lucky to get 1 CFM ona good windy day. I’d like to run the aerator part time to save electricity costs and I believe my air pump is sufficiently large enough to do so on a pond my size. My question is, if I were to run it 12 hours a day would it be better to run 12 hours consecutively or break it up into intervals. Currently I’m running about 3 hours at 4 evenly spaced intervals. Also is there a better time of day to run. I’ve heard oxygen levels are lowest at night. Would it be best to run at night and not during the day or vise versa or does it really just not matter. What impact would of have on the wear and tear of the pump. Are frequent shorter intervals better or worse than longer less frequent intervals? Thanks.

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Very good question that I do not have the answer to but will be very interested in the answers you get.

Here is an old thread that also will not answer your question but may raise some more and might give you some insights you may not thought about.

Aeration turnover rate

I think there is still a lot to be understood about aeration.

I will say this. I went to a larger capacity pump with considerable more air output than I had been using. I THINK the increased air flow and turnover rate has improved my water quality. I have had problems in past with cyanobacteria (bluegreen algae) during the dog days of summer when pond water levels are low in the past. My water level is very low this year and with the higher capacity pump (even though I do not run it all the time like I did my previous setup) I have had almost no sign of problems.

I have some different ideas about the best time to run the pump (when running less than 24-7) as you will find out if you read the linked thread. But I have no idea that my idea is correct and since I am in a minority view it is likely wrong. As you can tell from that thread, there are still lots of questions that have ideas but few hard "facts" about aeration. There are soooooo many variables and differences in ponds it is hard to give a "one size fits all" recommendation. Yet there is enough experience that at least we do have some general rules of thumb.

Hoping you get a good answer.

I will say one thing about multiple starts and stops of the pump. It takes more electricity each start cycle of the motor. I don't know if it is enough more to make any significant difference in your electric bill, but a motor does draw significantly more amps on startup than in run mode. 4 times a day???? Maybe no big deal. But if you were starting it 20 times a day I think you would see increased electric bill. My opinion - I'm no electrician.


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I am really just a beginner with aeration, but love to "talk" it up, so take my ramblings with a tablespoon of sugar.

Originally Posted By: snrub
There are soooooo many variables and differences in ponds it is hard to give a "one size fits all" recommendation. Yet there is enough experience that at least we do have some general rules of thumb.


snrub's hit it right on the head with the above quote.


In very basic terms...

The fewer times you start the electric motor the cheaper it is to operate given that the overall runtime is the same. Starting and stopping a motor repeatedly during an hour requires a more energy than just letting it run all a hour long. This cost savings would be minimal with these little motors over the course of 12 hours and only 4 start/stop cycles. So, this savings could easily be ignored or next to impossible to realize on an electricity bill. (Backing up snrub again)

The fewer times you start the electric motor the less wear it will have given normal operating conditions (e.g. no excessive heat or moisture in the pumps environment).

With that said, let's consider running the aerator 12 straight hours, but realizing that the benefits are minimal compared to cycling on/off periodically throughout the day. Although, I am having a hard time arguing one way or the other, it could be chalked up to personal preference unless water temps come into play...see below.

With your pond in a northern climate, but not too far north, it may not make a lot of difference what time of day you run the system during the summer unless you have cold water fish like trout. At any rate, determine what water temps your fish like and run the aerators to accommodate that temp. e.g. if you think your water temp is too hot, then run the system only at night OR if its too chilly - run it during the day to utilize the day's heat to warm the waters. I expect my system to flip from nights to days as fall approaches and eventually be shut down during the winter.

I am finding that my aeration system (Gast 0523 and 3 vertex single diffusers) running from 9pm to 9am stabilizes the temps in general, but is not a real game changer unless the pond finds itself on the verge of a fish-kill. So far so good, I think of my aeration system as insurance and as a capacity increaser. It does cycle the muddiness of the pond though. Muddier in the morning and less so in the evening. I think cycling the system 4 times a day would keep the clarity, or lack thereof, more consistently muddier. I'm not say that is good or bad...just saying.

Here is a recent thread that I ramble even more if you care see some temp data from before and after aeration start-up along with some more of my theories...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=495076#Post495076








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I battled the water temp issue for the first time this Summer. I recorded higher water temps than I have ever seen so I switched to 100% nighttime aeration.

IMHO, all else being equal and removing water temps from the equation. If DO levels are known to be lowest right before sunrise then aeration at night logically seems to be the most needed to aerate.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong!


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I have thought the same, but do not have any real evidence to back it up.

I think that oxygen will dissolve into the water more so during the day time mainly because I think that winds are stronger during the day compared to night. This would yield a better air to water interface. Are these safe statements? If so, aeration would be more efficient during the daytime, but would likely more productive at night due to less wind action and the absence of photosynthesis.

I'm on board WB!


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QA - I think it is the not only the lack of photosynthesis at night, but the O2 CONSUMPTION by plankton, plants, etc at night that really moves the DO needle. I imagine the rate of consumption would increase as a ponds productivity increased.

I tend to look at your theory about daytime winds in a slightly different way. The stronger winds during the day would provide their own contribution to, or form of, aeration. So you have SOME aeration "input" during the day. To me, that would be more of a reason aeration COULD be more beneficial/needed at night.

Again, I think it has been proven that if you measure your DO at 6am it will be lower than at 2pm. That just leads me to believe the most effective/most needed time to aerate is at night.

Honestly, I prefer to see the lake in it's natural state anyway rather than aeration plumes everywhere. So TO ME aeration at night is aesthetically preferable as well.


I hope that doesn't sound argumentative at all because I am definitely not arguing AND I have definitely made plenty of incorrect assumptions!


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My thinking...which doesn't say much ...is there should be an optimal number for fish survival / or plant...I think one would target this number then monitor DO levels at different times of days then different times of year. That would tell you on average when you should run it and not. Is it possible to have a pond with too much DO and will at some point the aeration be useless for fish?

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I run ours at night to cool the pond down and cut back on alga. I have been told to check the shore line in the morning for small bubbles on the surface of rocks. The bubbles indicate good O2 saturation.


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I think your assumptions are dead on Mr Buffet. If you look back at all the reported summer fish kills, the vast majority of them occur in the morning hours when all available DO has been consumed. While wind does provide a mixing of daytime oxygen, that oxygen stays primarily closer to the surface. With added heat, the fish want to be deeper, but have to suffer lower O2 levels until they're forced to go shallow, which in turn adds another stressor, causing them to consume even more O2.

In small ponds like mine, wind aeration is virtually nill, so aeration not only helps, but is necessary. Running at night for me is the only way to go short of 24/7, and my thoughts are 24/7 may help maintain higher levels of DO, but you're also threatening to super heat everything...I'm deep, deep south.

I start pumping air at 8p and run 12 hours. When it shuts off, the first rays of sun are hitting the pond. By 10:30 it's full sun, until 3:30, when shade starts creeping back in. As the shade increases, photosynthesis decreases, so before it drops too low, I'm already supplementing air.


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Originally Posted By: DonoBBD
I have been told to check the shore line in the morning for small bubbles on the surface of rocks. The bubbles indicate good O2 saturation.


Nice input...I, now, have a reason to go to the pond before work. Bubble hunting!


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Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Originally Posted By: DonoBBD
I have been told to check the shore line in the morning for small bubbles on the surface of rocks. The bubbles indicate good O2 saturation.


Nice input...I, now, have a reason to go to the pond before work. Bubble hunting!


QA - haha, while you are there you might as well start measuring morning temps and combine with your other data!!


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Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr
QA - haha, while you are there you might as well start measuring morning temps and combine with your other data!!


Oh No! Actually, You're right, but I don't know if I have it in me. Bubble hunting = a few minutes...temp readings about 20. How about I just do weekends? That can work! And, I think secchi readings would be most interesting.


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One of these days we are going to be some well educated folks!!!


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One thing to keep in mind when it comes to aeration. It is easy to be mislead to think that when we switch the air pump on we are starting aeration and increasing DO. Keep in mind that the bubbles themselves are only infusing a minute amount of DO. When we flip the switch on the pump motor what we are really doing is moving water.

Specifically we are moving lower water in the pond to the surface. It is this surface interaction that increases the DO for the most part as far as the water movement is concerned and if it is daylight hours algae is causing a lot more DO in the water than the air/water interface at the surface.

So when we flip that switch on and the motor hums are we increasing DO? Yes in the aggregate for the entire BOW we would. But would we be increasing it where the fish need it at that particular moment? I think it depends.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert and have lots more questions than answers. These are my thoughts not to be confused with actual good information. Keep that in mind as you read.

So when you flip that switch and start pumping water from depths to the surface the water that hits the surface infuses DO. But is that water on the bottom of the pond already sufficient with DO for the fish? Or is it deficient in DO? I think it depends on a lot of things. If adequate aeration was done at some earlier point where the lower water is still in good DO shape maybe that lower water is not too deficient in DO. But what if it is almost devoid of DO?

There are still questions in my mind if pumping water only during night hours is a good thing. I would think that pumping during some daylight hours where algae has a chance to mix with the water coming from the bottom and give that a quicker DO boost would be desirable. I would think that circulating some of that super saturated DO daylight surface water down into the lower regions of the pond to infuse it with DO to provide a DO "sink" would be desirable.

Rantings of someone that has a lot more questions than answers. For what it is worth I am running my pump from about 3am to noon and 5 to 8 pm. Trying to avoid the hottest part of the day yet circulate water while DO infusion by algae is still high.

Edit: It is my contention that from a DO standpoint pumping nutrient rich lower water up to the surface and mixing it with algae laden water would infuse much more DO in the BOW than pumping at night when the algae is dormant. But that does not address the problem of overheating the water.

Last edited by snrub; 08/23/18 10:25 PM.

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Thats exactly the situation I've found myself in snrub. After checking temps yesterday evening, I found only 3 degrees difference between water 20" deep and on the bottom. Even with elevated diffusers, the bottom temp is 88 degrees....way too warm. I've cut my run cycle in half as of last night, running only 6 hours, since I'm apparently over circulating the pond.

Hopefully, this shorter run will still give me a good mix, but allow for some natural cooling at depth. Time will tell.

Edit: when I adjusted my run time yesterday, I reduced hours from both ends of the cycle. After some thought, I'll make another adjustment today to have the pump running from 2am till 8am. Hopefully this will allow for more cooling prior to start-up and add oxygen during that period when its most needed.

Last edited by Mike Whatley; 08/24/18 07:16 AM.

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According to some loose calculations that I have done for my 1/4 acre pond (estimated to have 423,000 gallons of water) using Vertex's lift rate chart...A single vertex diffuser at 8 foot deep will turn my 1/4 acre pond over 4.3 times a day running 24/7.

For a 1/10th acre pond, the same calculations would allow for runtimes to be as little as an hour to achieve a once a day turn over. I am going to stick my neck out here and say that with the heat you are seeing from top to bottom and the size of your pond (0.1 acre) that raising the diffuser and reducing runtime will be required. I look forward to your results and, by no means, make any decisions based on my ramblings.

I wonder where kramedt is? He'll be surprised at the storm he has created, however, the timing was perfect!


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I'm not using Vertex, but I definitely need to contact the folks I bought the system from and find out if they can tell me what the turnover rate for their diffusers are. These are tubular membrane and didn't come with any data on the diffusers... Just the pump...which is Greek to me!!!

It may boil down to trial and error to find the right run time, and it's possible that I may end up raising the diffusers even higher to allow a little bottom stratification if I can't get the temp right.

I may have to look into a DO meter to get a better handle on what's going on so I can try to dial in to the right combination of temp and DO.

I like that the system is circulating the entire pond, even with the diffusers elevated 22". If I can get by with 4-6 hours, so much the better!!


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One more thought to add to all this. Someone would somehow need to figure in the fact that colder water has the ability to hold more oxygen. There would be some additional benefit/offset to running at night with much cooler temps. Would the lower temps and increased O2 capacity at night offset the plankton input during higher temps? If so, how much?

Last year I ran the 1HP pump A LOT during the day only. This year I am running the 1/2HP pump only at night for similar duration as last year. I wish the setups weren't so different and we would have some real data to compare. I will say that if my September 2018 (1/2HP) numbers somehow compare favorably to my September 2017 (1HP) numbers things will get very interesting.


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I find myself returning to the same thought process. So I will say it one last time.

In the spirit of K.I.S.S.

If DO levels drop at night and are lowest at sunrise, isn't aeration mostly needed/effective at night??


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Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr
If DO levels drop at night and are lowest at sunrise, isn't aeration mostly needed/effective at night??


I would run aeration 24/7 if rising temps were not a concern. Since rising temps for our small ponds IS a concern, I'm on board. Two birds with one stone. Run at night to maximize aeration affects and minimize temp rises.


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Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr

If DO levels drop at night and are lowest at sunrise, isn't aeration mostly needed/effective at night??


DO is most needed at the end of night early in the morning near sunrise. But replace the word aeration in your statement abover with "water movement from lower to upper regions of the pond" since that is actually what your aeration equipment is doing. Yes, your needs for more DO is in the pre-dawn hours. But is moving lower water upward (which is actually what your doing) accomplishing that goal?

I do not know. I'm asking. It just seems to me we may be equating the pump running as adding DO (it does at the surface but does it where the fish are residing?) but ignoring what the pump is actually doing which is moving lower water (could be lower or higher in DO depending on a number of factors such as how much high DO water was moved to the lower region at an earlier time) to the surface.

I know more than I understand and I don't know enough. Sounds like something Yogi Berra would say.


Last edited by snrub; 08/24/18 01:28 PM.

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I'm certainly new to all this but don't forget that if you are moving lower water up with aeration that the water that's moving up is replaced by water residing elsewhere in the pond. While it's not directly pulling water from the surface down it certainly would seem to imply that if one looks at all the diagrams that aeration companies put out on how aeration destroys the stratification layer.

When initially starting up the upwelling water would be colder than the surface water and would tend to sink back down faster but it will at the same time be mixing with the warmer surface water. However the average temperature should be lower than the unmixed surface water and so it should still sink - moving some of the mixed surface water down to the lower depths.

That process would probably continue until the BOW is at a more or less uniform temperature with little to no stratification. No clue where the water to replace the upwelling water comes from at that point but the fancy diagrams suggest the cycle just continues with surface water falling to the lower regions - which may be the case when the water cools in the evening. During the heat of the day it probably just continues to look like a blender.

Just my $0.02 but not based on any real science.

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Originally Posted By: snrub
Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr

If DO levels drop at night and are lowest at sunrise, isn't aeration mostly needed/effective at night??


DO is most needed at the end of night early in the morning near sunrise. But replace the word aeration in your statement abover with "water movement from lower to upper regions of the pond" since that is actually what your aeration equipment is doing. Yes, your needs for more DO is in the pre-dawn hours. But is moving lower water upward (which is actually what your doing) accomplishing that goal?


Snrub - At this point I am assuming most folks in these conversations understand that by saying aeration we mean moving the bottom water up, BUT you know what they say about assumptions.

I am not sure I understand the part of your question that I put in bold. We know that moving bottom water to the surface increases our DO, aren't we just trying to pick the best time to do it??

I learned that once water reaches the air/water interface water is extremely efficient at exchanging "gases" for O2. The exchange is almost instantaneous. So once that low/no DO water reaches the surface it becomes highly oxygenated. I am ASSUMING that water raised to the surface becomes more oxygenated than water that sits 1' or 1" below the surface somewhere else on the pond. Isn't that raising our DO no matter day or night?

I don't know enough either!! Where is Bill Cody!!??


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Yes. That is what I said I believe.

But if I recall what Cody said, the air water interface affects a very small amount of water right at the surface.

If I recall what he said correctly, the majority of DO infusion comes from algae respiration during the daylight hours and produces O2 at all levels the algae see sunlight.

If that is true (and I remember correctly what he said) daylight hours are multiple times more effective at infusing DO into the BOW.

That is why I wonder if night only operation is not short changing the capability of the aeration system to add DO to the BOW. But I also understand the problem of over heating the entire BOW. So it would seem to me there are two different issues that are at odds with each other.


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I contacted the company I bought my system from and, as I suspected, they weren't able to tell me what the turnover rate is for this setup.

Looks like I'm gonna have to do more trial and error and hope I don't error to big!!

I've reduced run times to 6 hours, coming on at midnight, but I may adjust again to come on even later, maintaining a 6 hour run. It's apparent the system is getting a full turnover with the little difference in temps I found running 12 hours. My goal is to reach an optimum bottom temp, with adequate O2. I think the DO will be there, but the temps need to come down. I'm thinking 88 degrees is borderline superheating.

Can someone tell me what that temp target should be? As small as my pond is, I may not be able to get that cool in the heat of the summer, but at least I'll have something to shoot for.


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