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#197494 01/02/10 10:17 AM
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Can anyone tell me how the commercial systems work?

Do they inject antifreeze in the line wth a pressure change or do they pass the air through a reseirvor of antifreeze to dry the air before it is sent down he air line? This would allow small amounts of anti freeze vapor to enter the air line?

Seems to me if you have the air pass through a substance that will take the mositure out of the air you can prevent freeze ups.

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The Koenders windmill system requires the freeze control tank to be filled with alcohol (2.5 gal). As pressure increases to a preset PSI, alcohol is injected into the airline to thaw the ice blockage.


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Thanks Bill,
I'm looking into air line dryers used for paint spray systems that use a disiccant like, silica gel. This may be the answer to my freezing issue. If I can prevent mositure from entering the line it won't freeze.

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This is a Koender unit that I got from Bill to fabricate a deicer for a customer in South Dakota. This system is a Vertex Air 3 >> 4.4 cfm and is used in a lake in the winter only to create open water for the snow goose hunting season.This design had 3000 ft of trunk line laying on top of the ground.Trunk line is 1.25 inch. We used RV in this unit. I think if you will increase your line size and get it deeper you will eliminate the need for a dryer or a deicer.I have 3 electric systems and 1 windmill that I can use anytime in the winter with no deicing.I would add the check valve right at the connection from the airline to the diffuser (in water) if your going to use a porus type diffuser that allows water to back feed. I would add a relief valve at the compressor to avoid going over the max pressure spec.How much line are you currently using both in ground and in water ??

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I saw the unit on Bill's website. Interesting design, but way to large for my location. For my application I want to keep the device as small as possible. I'm trying to keep it enclosed in the well house.

I'm thinking taking the mositure out of the air is a better alternative to adding chemicals to eliminate ice.

The total lenght of line is about 50 feet of 1/4" ID (poly) line. From the compressor to the pond it is incased in polyethylene foam pipe insulation, which is buried anout 6" deep in the ground. This slopes slightly to the pond edge about 10 feet. It is then buried at a steep slope for another 6 feet, same depth. At the time of installation the air line only came out of the soil and extended to the defuser (1 foot diameter of coiled soaker hose) to about the center of the pond. Before the ice covered the pond some of the air line was very near the surface and has been frozen in the ice. Thus freezing any moisture captured in the line. I run the compressor 24/7. When the system is running the air pressure is abot 18 psi.



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For my winter aerator I just threw the airline into the pond, and let it float. The compressor is roughly 4' higher than the water level in the pond, and 9' higher than the diffuser. So far I haven't had a freezing problem, and it's gottem pretty close to 0*F this year. The airline is a 100' run, 1/2" poly line. If you're going to change out the line in the Spring, I don't think you'll have much of a problem after that.


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HI Scruffy,

Your line may be too small in the first place to run 50' and get adequate output. Plus only being 6" in the ground, could freeze up quite quickly.

Just here to help if I can - So, you said the line is Polyester? Double check that, it could be made out of a couple thousand "Poly Things" but, most likely Polypropylene or Polyethylene. Could be a Polyvinyl chloride of another hundred flavors, but I doubt that.

That said, it probably would not be polyester. (remember "Barney Miller and the crew", That was Polyester)

As far as drying the air, you are right on top with that. I would not even consider something that I had to maintain for this task.

Desiccant's are a point of use type, or limited time frame type of "Moisture Control". Once they are used up (and no control points) that is it. Cost a few bucks, hard to manage, lot's of labor involved (the type of problem you worry about as the owner)

...I would suggest a refrigerated air dryer. Hook it up properly, plug it in, and that is it.





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Just something that came to mind when you mentioned drying the air. Many years ago I did a stint in a car body shop. They used an air filter to absorb moisture so as eliminate moisture while painting cars. It worked pretty well as there were no problems with moisture.
They made a receptor for a roll of toilet paper & installed it in the air line feeding the paint gun. The roll was changed before it became completely saturated. Best of all the "wet" roll was set aside to dry & reused.

As JKB says the refrigerated air dryer would be the best. It does require regular maintenance though.

Last edited by Ric Swaim; 01/02/10 11:22 PM.

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scruffy, 18 psi for your depth and tubing run is too high. Your current setup has too much friction (1/4 inch line) and perhaps resistance (style and design of diffuser).As suggested just increase your line size and if you have more than .5 psi per ft of water depth on your guage make changes in your diffuser setup also,The higher the pressure the less air you have available at the diffuser.Always try to have the lowest amount of pressure possible for maximum air availability.

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Thanks for all the good advice. I will change out the air line before next winter for sure. Until then I'm going to put in an airline dryer.

I also did some custom auto painting, in an other life, and that's were I came up with drying the air. With some internet searching I found a few in line dryers for around twenty bucks. One system even changes color to tell you when to change out the filter. I would hope this will solve my problem until the thawe.

Ted,
Thanks for the numbers I may have to lenghten the soaker hose to allow for more air to be released. At the moment the water is rolling pretty good and keeping a 6 foot diameter hole open at about 6 foot depth of pool.

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I was able to get to the local NAPA store today and found a couple of inline moisture filters for $17. This was a better price than I found on the internet searches.



I installed one this afternoon and we'll see if it keeps the air line from freezing. If it works, it will be a quick fix and cheap prevention. BTW there was on increase in air pressure.

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 Originally Posted By: scruffy_fish
I was able to get to the local NAPA store today and found a couple of inline moisture filters for $17. This was a better price than I found on the internet searches.



I installed one this afternoon and we'll see if it keeps the air line from freezing. If it works, it will be a quick fix and cheap prevention. BTW there was on increase in air pressure.



Thats good SF. Keep us posted.

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 Originally Posted By: Ric Swaim


As JKB says the refrigerated air dryer would be the best. It does require regular maintenance though.


The one I have by Wilkerson is totally automatic and maintenance free. Just hook it up, plug it in and you are ready to go.

Sweetest piece I ever installed, but you probably wont throw out a grand+++ for oil free and dry air to your pond.

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JKB, you better beleive I wouldn't throw more money at the pond than I absolutly need to. My wife already thinks the pond is just another boat, "Break Out Another Thousand". Besides, like I mentioned in another post I like DYI projects and inexpensive solutions. It must be the yankee in me?


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