Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding What's eating my feed - LMB?

This year when I feed the fish (I throw in about 4 lbs of Purina GFChow by hand about 4 times a week) over the deep hole at the south side of my pond, I have not been able to identify the very first fish that hit the feed. I am used to the "wham-turn-tail slap" of Channel Cats, the hit, run, and nibble of GShiners, and the lazy-day surface-swallow-submerge cycle of the Grass Carp. This is none of those patterns. It seems to be caused by fish intermediate in size between my 6"-9" GShiners and the 18"-24" CC. It is very quick, very violent, and virtually impossible to see the fish responsible (one time I thought I saw a tail with a lateral line, hence the idea it might be LMB). There are only a few hits like this right when the feed hits the water (tonight, three separate hits simultaneously), then, after the bigger CC show up, not again.

I have heard the decription of HSB "exploding" onto the feed; this is kind of like that, but 1) I only have one HSB that I know of and 2) I believe the strikes are too small to be caused by an 18"+ HSB.

Any ideas what is responsible? Possibilities among the stocked fish that have not been seen feeding are redears(very doubtful), BG, HBG, and LMB.

Cecil or others with feed-trained LMB - Do they hit the feed like this?

TG,

LMB, in my ponds, make a very distinct sound, unlike any other feeding fish. It kind of has a "gulp" component to it along with the obvious violence. They act like they are killing the pellet. Hard to describe, but once you see a LMB and hear the sound together, it is unmistakable. I can tell every time a LMB takes a pellet without ever seeing them. Very different than HSB or BG and certainly the lazy grass carp and timid Tilapia.

The LMB are very interesting around the feeders and unpredictable...most of the time they are after the BG but sometimes they get after the pellets also. I haven't noticed that they are necessarily first in line either.

Theo and ML, on the rare occasions that I have seen my bass eat pellets, it is anything but violent. They come up from the side, gently take the pellet and go back down. When it happens, they take several, and then don't do it again. It is entirely different from the feeding/attack behavior on the feeding bluegills.

I wonder if the differences in behavior we observe may be due in part to what else is in the pond? Theo has CC's I think and I do not. We both have HSB, although I have several and Theo has one I believe. I don't know.

Wish it were possible to do "field trials"..where forum members could go to the other person's place to observe. I would welcome any forum member to my place. I think our ponds have subtle differences such that we could all learn so much more by seeing other ponds in action. If wishes were horses...

Theo,

My Grass Carp will tail slap quickly to run off the smaller fish; really loud and makes a huge splash. It didn't happen before I put in the HSB so I'm guessing the carp don't like the competition.I haven't seen my LMB eating feed yet but they do lurk around the edge of the feed slick and take the other fish, maybe LMB are coming up and striking some lazy BG taking feed.

Chip

Chip,

Perfect example of differences in behavior of fish in our ponds. I've never seen a grass carp do that and yet I have several that eat pellets.

It is interesting how the fish behavior differs in some ways and yet is the same in most...interesting to me, guess that makes me a pond nut

There's no mistake about ID when HSB feeds - they are the most aggressive feeders on our pond - usually on the outer limits of the feed.
Fun to watch...and catch...!
George Glazener

Dave's post on LMB feeding reminded me of 2 years ago when I started feeding with young fish. A few times, I saw a 6"-8" LMB very casually loiter around the feeding, then saunter up and take one or two pellets, very much like Dave describes.

My Grass Carp sometimes do a HUGE tail slap like Chip describes when feeding. They are the most mellow, lethargic fish until 1) something upsets them feeding, 2) you startle them in the shallows near the bank, or 3) you get them close enough to see you after you hook one. Then, they display the power and speed that a big fish has in reserve.

I'll keep trying to see what's making this intermediate sized, violent strike on feed pellets. If I figure it out, I'll let you know.

Do grass carp have a top fin that is higher than other fish? I've noticed a fish in shallow water that has its top fin sticking up.

Theo,

I think the only way you will know what they are is to fish with a pellet or a "pom pom" when you first feed. Personally I would wrap a pellet or two in pantyhose, hook the hose with a small hook (salmon egg hook the best) and cast it out with the feed on light light when you first throw the feed out. It should float.

I've noticed different feeding techniques with different species, but I've also noticed they vary sometimes depending on how hungry they are and water temps. Also the smaller fish tend to race up and grab a pellet and go vs. the larger dominant fish.

My bass seem to slurp up the feed with an occasional large one asserting his or her dominance by making a big splash. I have no grass carp feeding in the bass pond at this time but will be getting 10 large ones in a week or two. Chara is taking over the pond since it is out competing the phytoplankton. My water is now crystal clear with no algae bloom!

Turkeyfoot,

Grass carp have a tall dorsal fin. See link for picture;

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fish/infish/species/carpmin/gcp.phtml

Good information and picture from that link.

Grass Carp are not allowed in Michigan but I have a mental picture of a 400# GC eating 300% of his body weight each day. Now thats weed control.


Just one of those and a couple dozen large algea eating Talapia would sure save a lot of time cutting and rakeing the ever expanding weeds.

Dan,

It's funny but as the grass carp get older and larger, they actually seem to eat less. That has been documented and I've certainly observed it. Maybe they are like me...as I get older it doesn't take as many calories as it used to; unlike grass carp I don't seem to eat less however.

I have 7 GC in a one acre pond. They were stocked 3 years ago to control the huge amount of pondweed. They did a great job. Then they started on the milfoil and got most of it. However, now I see pondweed coming back and wonder if they have grown too much to have an appetite. ML, I have the same problem you do regarding groceries, calories, waistline and, most of all, will power.

My Grass Carp do the tail slap as well. I observed for the first time ever last night a Large Mouth Bass eating the Fish Chow, he kind of laid on his side and slurped them up, he came back for more five or six times. My Bluegill seem to be the most aggresive when eating the feed. I only feeding one or twice a week (trying to get the Tilapia to eat all the algea), they have proven to work real good at cleaning the pond of Algea.

I watched a bass eat a pellet this afternoon. He flew to the pellet but eased up and swallowed it. The bluegill are another story. They suck up the pellets like a vacuum cleaner.

Thanks for the link on the grass carp.

Just another option...I've seen Green Sunfish and a "hybrid" green/lepomis attack floating fish food pretty violently as well. If they're around they're one of the first to hit the food.

Not exactly an update, but a sidenote.

I have not observed the "mystery feeders" that started all this, but in looking for them, I have finally got substantial numbers of BG eating feed! I now have 4-5 dozen fingerlings (from 2" to 4" or so) agressively sucking pellets very near the shoreline where I have been feeding on the South side of my pond. Serendipity, Baby!

You guys have always said "If you feed them long enough, they'll show up." Maybe If I hadn't fed in deeper water from off the dock for so long, it wouldn't have taken 2 years for the BG to show up. But they're here now!

Update with a new hypothesis. My original observation last year was:

I have observed the "mystery feeders" again this year and I think perhaps I have them ID'd. I think they are small (6"-12") CC, based on a good visual ID of one tonight that went through some real acrobatics to apparently avoid being eaten by a LMB (which hang around the feedring looking for snacks much larger than a pellet, as Meadowlark and others have noted).

The mystery feeder sound/splash signature seems to match this size CC, so maybe that's it. I never considered small CC last year because 1) I did not know that my CC had successfully reproduced and 2) my original CC stockers did not act like that while feeding when they were the same size. But I now know my CC have indeed spawned, and think the first year class was in the 6"-9" size range last year. And my original stockers, when that size, had no predators in the pond even close to their own size, let alone big enough to eat them. But a 6" CC in the pond now has to worry about 2-3 lbs LMB, hence (I speculate) the change in pellet feeding behavior.

We have at least 30-40 LMB eating pellets regularily and probably many more. If they were started on pellets, they were very small when they were taken off them. Every year, I see many more LMB eating pellets than the year before.

Wow must be nice! I've rarely had very aggressive bluegill pellet feeders! Even in a pond that only has bluegill and yellow perch! I have about 10 large ones in a pond with yellow perch right now that came out of a pond where they fed on pellets, and were pellet trained fish and they have no interest in pellets whatsoever! Only thing I can figure is I have plenty of natural feed in the pond. I have just put a buglight in for night time feeding to see if they will take insects off the surface like they do in the daytime.

I was just at my female YP, male BG, female RES pond and spent the evening observing feeding. Since the weather and water are getting warm (water temp is 77 degrees) I've decreased the feeding schedule to one feeding at 8:45 pm for one second from the Sweeney feeder.

My big surprise over the last few weeks is that EVERY time I do this, the bluegill actually prefer to feed later than the YP. About ten minutes after the feeder goes off the YP are on a pretty good roll. Each feeding is fairly delicate. It's either a sip, or a subtle grab followed by a tail flip. The bluegill make a lot more noise, and start about 9:15. I think the YP back off a little as the bluegill make their charge. After the bluegill have had their fill, then the YP start up again, now even quieter. I'm assuming this is because they are partially full.

I have estimated the one second feeding to deliver about 700-800 pellets of the Aquamax Grower 600. Tonight I counted each individual surface disturbance and it turned out to be 695 separate feedings, which works out to be between 3 and 4 pellets per fish, assuming that all 200 fish are feeding.

I never thought I'd reach the point that I didn't care if I brought a fishing pole, but it never crossed my mind tonight.

What fun.

Sorry to get off topic: but I can't help but laugh at the thought of Bruce counting out 700-800 pellets and then standing there counting 695 separate feedings. Wow, that is an intense aquaculturist. Bruce, you never cease to amaze me.

Hhmmmm. Bruce are you trying for mBG X fRES crosses? I thought you might be up to something. :p

BTW lots of times I never take a pole with me. But I don't count pellets or strikes yet. I have some large BG who eat pellets with no noise or splash. They just ease up and take one and ease down. If you did not see the fish you would not know they were feeding.

Shhhhh......that's a top secret project!

I have discovered that I also enjoy just watching the fish feed on pellets. I have a hard time using my fishing pole when the pellets are getting tossed, it just seems like cheating to me.