Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Aquamax differences?

I bought a fresh bag of AQ500 today, and when I went to feed this evening something looked different. The new feed was darker, smelled different,and the pellets looked slightly larger, and had a "coarser" texture to it. The HBG seemed to eat it much the same as they always have, so I didn't think too much about it.

I always hydrate the feed for the other ponds, and when I went to feed those I noticed that the pre-soaked feed was noticeably bigger.... it always swells when wet, but this was bigger than normal.

When I returned home I compared the tag off of the bag I picked up this morning, with the tags from my last four bags....yes, I keep them...you never know...

The list of ingredients, as well as the guaranteed analysis, was exactly the same on the four older bags, but the new one was different. Crude protein has always been 41%, the new feed shows 41.3%.

Crude fat min. was always 12%, now it's decreased to 10.7%. Calcium has increased, along with ash. Sodium has decreased.

The first ingredient on AQ500 has been fish meal, as long as I've been paying attention anyway....now it's ground corn??

Anybody else notice a difference?

I have to buy feed next week, I'll look at the label on the AM600 then.

Forgot to mention...it was slightly more expensive also. That could very well be due to a yearly, planned price increase, or an amount tacked on by my local dealer however.

My 500 and 600 has jumped from $30.00 to $32.50. The dealer said it has to do with grain prices. I thought the grain being used is most likely from last year though?

Aquamax reserves the right to change ingredients and I believe it says so on the bag.

I guess I'm mostly concerned that any such changes don't impact my original reason for choosing AQ feed in the first place.. That being it contains a protein source derived primarily from fish meal, and not plant based.

Will check mine this weekend.

My purina dealer told me to expect a major hike next year, so did the guy who delivered my fish.. $7-$10 per bag.. I'm looking for a new product I'm pretty much disgusted with purina and I have to pick up 6 bags tomorrow. I think we need to start a thread on competitive products I know it's been talked about but not a specific thread on it..

I hear you. Considering the lack of communication from them on this website (and those here that have contacted them including myself with no response), and the explanation they gave on the overdose of Vitamin D (nothing to worry about in fish just for those that resold the feed for other types of animals) I could understand a healthy skepticism. My response to that is why the expensive recall then, and why worry about people repackaging it for other animals when it shouldn't be something a manufacturer is responsible for.

Would we really know if it was mostly grain now without analyzing it? Really?

I purchased 4 bags of AM 500 from Fenders fish farm at 34.00 per bag back in May. In July I purchased 4 more bags from a guy that has ponds to grow fish for meat sale and paid 32.00 per bag for AM 500 and same for AM 400. I noticed the feed was made last week of June and it was darker and larger also then the feed in May on the AM 500 that was left in the feeders. It would be nice to have another company to provide the 41% in differant sizes.

Iceman

Just picked up 4 bags of 600 same ingredients as always.. But a $1.05 cheaper weird.. Haven't examined the contents yet.. The tag is different paper and color everything else seems the same

sprkplug, does your tag say D505?

Well, all of my tags, old as well as the new, say 5D05. The old tags were printed on two sides, while the new tag only has printing on one side. All of the old tags I have also say Grower 500, as does the new tag.

The old tags say: "Food for trout, HSB, YP, Red Drum, Catfish and Tilapia".

The new tag says "Feed for starting fry fish"

All tags have the same numbers below the bar code, 27613 00047

The new tag also has a very noticeable "Extruded", in vertical lettering superimposed over the rest of the writing.

The date on the new bag is Aug 04.

As in august 4th or 2004?? The tags have definitely changed... Now I wished I'd kept tags lol..

August 4th...sorry

sprkplug -I've had the same concerns for AM 600 for the last 8-12 yrs that you are seeing with AM 400 & 500. I wonder about their Quality Control, My concerns have even been present even before they remained their trout chow and tweaked the formula to Aquamax. I've talked to company reps several times about the inconsistant pellet size, pellet color, and the way it absorbs water. Each bag in my experience is a little or noticably different as Sprkglug is saying. I get excuses from Purina such as availability of raw products and when the extruders that produce the pellets have been cleaned last. I think some other manufacturers have better quality control and a more consistant which is why some professional trout farmers prefer brands other than Purina. Purina has invited me to vist the pellet manufacturing plant in Richmond IN. They evidently give tours.

So, what are our best options for fish food? It seems I gravitate to Purina because of availability. Even feed stores that don't stock it can get it delivered with their other regular shipments so convenience seems to be my biggest reason for buying it.

I'd be curious what brand fish farms use, because of 1, the volume they feed, and 2, their desire to grow their stock as fast as possible to get them sell ready. I know Todd Overton has pallets of food stored, but I didn't want to start rummaging through his stuff last trip down. I'd hate to get shot at a fish farm over being nosy.

Any of you fish farm guys want to chime in?

Bill, I'm glad to hear you say that. By virtue of my desire to hand feed, I've got my fingers in this stuff every day. I've opened new bags that were a slightly different color before, usually darker, but I always just assumed that the color variation was due to freshness....so much for what I thought I knew.

This last bag however, is markedly different. Different color, different texture, different smell, different labeling, different qualities during hydration....

I just think I've handled too much of it to not notice a change. Something's different. Now I just want to find out if this change will impact my fish, and to what degree.

Fish farm feed is not necessarily the best for long term feeding as they have different goals ( for example like feeding baby animals very high fat milk while adults don't need and don't use it well). Each species is different as to optimum requirements. We had a detailed presentation at the last convention on this topic.

Purina has an explanation on its web site about this question and Bill covered it - bulk ingredient differences can cause appearance differences ( http://aquamax.purinamills.com/aqua_faq_1.html ). I am not concerned about what is noted so far as the product is tested for variance all through the process (see the recall for slight increase in amount of D and E).

I am concerned about their apparent careless approach to customer service ( addressing concerns and questions). IMO we need to get past the sales reps and talk to the scientists at Purina.

IMO food quality from products of the major producers when the ingredients and amounts are close are not material to BG , CNBG ,RES , HSB , LMB and YP requirements in supp feeding. For example even supp feeding of 30 % catfish food is much , much better than no feeding for these fish species. With the CC food you likely get 75% of the value/result while the others may give 95% . So IMO with the similar type/quality foods by the different producers there is only a percent or two max difference when viewed in the light of nutrition requirments in supp feeding. If you are after the last few % of max results then there are several other matters much more important than what producer to use. If so then consider learning a lot more about each fish species and its nutrition requirments and look for producers of specialty feeds. Trout and other cold water fish are somewhat different and have special/different feeds.

ewest, so am I missing something by not looking at all the numbers on the food and just focusing on protein levels?

I have to admit I haven't really compared anything but protein levels, because I just assumed higher protein meant more productive food.

Ewest I hear you and I agree. I don't want to jump the gun and start switching feed if I don't have to. But that still leaves the most important question unanswered: Has the source of the protein in AQ500 changed any at all?

Ground corn is now the first ingredient listed on the tag. Is the majority of the protein still based on fish meal, or has a plant taken on more of that role?

What about the vitamin content? Where's it at?

New tag on left, old tag on right. Side "A"



New tag on right, (blank), old tag on left. Side "B"

Here's the tag from mine yesterday

After three days feeding out of the new bag, I can tell I'm using slightly more feed. When I throw out a handful, not as many pellets hit the water. I can't get as many in my hand. Also, the feed I hydrate doesn't go as far, even though I'm using the same containers I always have. The feed is physically bigger.

My label looks different but says the same thing. Will post a pic.



This was July 24 2012 date.

Just my luck to get the only bag that was different!

Maybe I'm part of a top-secret test program...

Well yours is 500 ours are 600 maybe the difference is only in 500