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Derek G Offline OP
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I am looking to build an excavated pond, probably around 1.5 acres (between 1-2a). It would be used primarily for swimming & decoration, and secondarily for fishing.

The building area is a flat, open field with about 4 feet deep of sandy loam, then a nice layer of clay underneath it.

I had a contractor come out and do some other work for me, and it was very reasonable ($575 compared to the $1500 others were quoting). I also talked to him about putting in a pond, and he actually drove me around and showed me about 30 others he had built. Despite the low cost on the other work he did for me, he estimated that a 1 acre pond would cost me $20k, and each acre afterward would cost more because the additional acreage would be mostly dug at the deeper level of around 14'(thus moving more earth). I called one other contractor on the phone who gave me a very rough estimate that was around $20k just do dig a hole...without moving the dirt anywwhere or leveling it out.

From most of the research I have done, I know that prices vary a great deal, but these estimates sound rather high. $30-40k for 1.5 acres sounds like a lot, especially since I would probably want to add in a well, aeration, and misc things to accomdate both fishing and a swimming beach.

Do these figures sound way off the mark, or might they be appropriate?

Does anyone have recommendations for a qualified, reasonablly-priced contractor in SE Michigan?

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Derek G Offline OP
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Ok, that helps, perhaps. Most of the info that I see involves putting in a dam, so if excavated costs are that much more, maybe that's the explanation. The cost itself is not so much of a prohitive factor. I am just concerned about paying 2-3X more than what I "should" be paying.

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Derek:

4 years ago our .9 acre pond totalled $15k (excavation and all pipes, drainbox, etc.). It is primarily a dammed pond (that's what my wife calls it - your damned pond), but the upper 1/3 was excavated, with the dirt (apx. 400 15 ton loads) moved elsewhere on the property by dump truck.


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PI:

We ran the dirt moving business two straight weekends, total of 4 10-11 hour days. One trackhoe (not the biggest I have seen, but a fairly big one) and 2 20-ton dumptrucks (which ran about 3/4 full due to the drivers' concerns over cornering, etc. on the veritable cross-country course roughly 400 yards long through the farm). Once they got into a rhythm, we had a truckload go past the house every 6 minutes. About a third of the time, I was hauling gravel or dirt in my front-end loader to place it in low spots the drivers kept finding/making.

The bill for just the 2 dumptrucks for 4 days was about $1800. Almost all the dirt was hauled to the field next to the horse barn and used as fill for my wife's outdoor riding arena (Serendipity, Baby!). After the second weekend, there was a layer of dust (from the wheel ruts) over the entire farm; the dust in the ruts themselves was about 3" thick.

Both trucks were an American brand - Freightliners I think (4 years is a long time unless you're remembering something you're really interested in). The trackhoe was definitely a Kobelco.


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Derek,
My brother built a 3.5 Acre bottom land pond in the woods in the U.P., near Houghton. He got the DNR/NRCS office involved and said that they were very helpful. Most all my exposure and experiences with the NRCS offices has been extraordinarily rewarding. They are what you pay taxes for. I am in the middle of a 5a project and am using a contractor that used to be the CD agent, so I get both advantages. I am also going to get the NRCS office involved, just cuz. As my contractor would put it: "hey, you're paying for the service, so why not get their input?" They can and will do all the engineering, and provide the details of what to do and how much of it to do. The best part: It costs nothing and if you want to scrap their involvement, go ahead. You do want to remain very "hands on", tho. This is very much an "informed consumer" situation.
Regarding costs, as I have learned, efficiency=cost. If soil can be wasted VERY close to the excavation area, this is best. A dozer loses efficiency after pushing more than 125 feet or so. If it has to be trucked out, you are in the extreme end of the cost. Once again, this is where the NRCS can help with figuring how much excavation is required.
$20K for digging only for a 1.4a pond can only be cost-considered after knowing how many yards of dirt is being moved. Yes, it does sound kinda stiff, but how much digging do you want?

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Derek G Offline OP
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The dirt doesn't have to go far. The pond will be in the middle of an 8 acre flat field, and there are a number of ways I can go about using the dirt clost to the dig site.

The estimate of 20k (for 1a) involved leveling out the dirt or moving it nearby. My 2nd "guesstimate" was for 21k+ (for 1a) and it did NOT include moving the dirt away from the dig site. It was just for digging a hole and dumping the dirt near the site. Anything else would be extra.

As for the NRCS, I actually just called them the other day, and the guy told me that they don't have any programs to assist with building a private pond and that they don't get involved in smaller projects like this. Instead, he just pointed me to the county's website where they have a VERY basic outline of the pond-building process and told me that I should have no problem planning it out myself. :rolleyes: Gotta love those tax-dollars being put to good use.

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Part of the problem for getting pricing on a pond is that there is so much unknown. Contractors are very reluctant to give firm price quote due to th unknown.

Make sure you totally trust the contractor you work with and stay with him as the work progresses so as th suprizes are uncovered you can make the cost tradeoff decissions.

Additionally, you may be able to sell the material taken out of the pond area like we did. Sold the topsoil that was nearly 3 feet thick and that paid for significant excavation cost. The further they have to push or haul the other material the higher the cost will be. Hours on the dozer/excavator plus diesel fuel cost run up fast if you have to push far. We made some compromises with that aspect but ended up with a pond that we love. You can see the photos of our project by clicking the little house symbol on my post.

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Derek,
Your site description indicates that the job can be fairly predictable, provided you offer very specific dimensions and excavation requirements. (sorry to hear about the NRCS response....something sounds askew with their attitude?) Anyway, as Tuzz mentioned, there are some unknowns, but a skilled pond contractor will know the region and be versed in what they may possibly be. All this being said, the guy that I am currently working with will straight bid a job if he can easily see the scope of the work. Then, as a free/included option, he will track the hours of equipment time at a specific price per pc of equipment (currently at $100/hr). If at the end of the job the equipment time comes in under the quote, he will only bill the equipment time. He says that he is the exception to the rule in "the land of excavators", but his customer base appreciates it..and..he claims that most times he comes in under his bid. In my project, because I am working with a site that was 4 - 6 acres, heavy timber and thick bramble, and I brought him in late Spring 2005 (heavy leave-age) and I wanted to start in August, he was uncomfortable in a straight bid because it was too difficult to "see". He asked me if I would go with straight equipment time at $100/hr. I agreed, based on the super reputation he had in the area....then I spent many hours at the jobsite watching the performance to confirm my bang for the buck. He delivered. If I thought he was slacking, I would have politely asked him to provided the equipment time log, match it to mine, ask for a bill, and fire him.
My point: I think it might be fair to ask a contractor that is doing an "easy to see" job to provide a firm bid and offer a "by-the-hour" option. Then, watch him right from the beginning to verify it's gonna be a good performance....and....don't be afraid to pull the plug.

Afterthought: Ya know, there is one story that I would like to share with all the pond-sters that is pertinent. I mentioned in the above post that my bro' did a 3.5a pond in the U.P. forest bottom-lands. He went thru he-- to get there. His phase one was about 1.5a and it went fairly smooth (except for the week that he decided to rent a dozer and do it himself....that turned out to be a do-it-yourself catastrophy; he bailed out, lost a small bunch'o $, and hired in a pro to finish). Anyway, phase 2 is the kicker. He hires the local excavator (different from phase 1) and gets a commitment to do the job during the ideal window at the end of summer. According to my bro', the window in U.P. is v limited. Anyway, the window comes and goes because his contractor is busy with other (more important?) clients. Then, when the contractor is ready, the window is gone and things are gettin' wet.....he shows up with the equipment and tears into it. The next $30,000 + of time was spent slipping and sliding; the contractor blaming nature for the $ overage. He hands my bro' the bill and the war begins. Ultimately, they avoided court by negotiating to low $20k's and their friendship is ruined (awww, too bad, ya-hey). The Moral (as if I need to tell ya): even at a higher price, get a guy that is honest and you can trust.

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Derek, NRCS money assistance on ponds is hit or miss county by county here in Missouri. However they should still come out and do a layout for you. If I were you I would call the NRCS regional office in your area and request they send someone out to do a pond evaluation for you. I know that in Missouri even the NRCS counties that do not offer money assistance on ponds will still do a pond layout for you.

As for the cost of building the pond from some of the size and depth numbers you stated. I would guess cost to be around $22,500 for a 1 acre pond. Depending on the distance that you need to move the dirt from the pond, that price may or may not include that. If you could get someone to do a cross section of the field that would be a big plus. \:D

I think it would be wise to spend some money if you can't get the NRCS to help to have the pond designed by a professional and come up with some hard numbers. Then you would have a good yardage number to take to all the contractors.

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Derek,
This post got me curious so I did a little math. Here goes. 1 acre excavated 12 feet deep with 3:1 slopes equals 13,301 cu. yds.
1 acre excavated 10 feet deep with 3:1 slopes equals 11,867 cu. yds.
1 acre excavated 14 feet deep with three sides at 3:1 slopes and 1 side including digging out 3:1 to join existing acre equals 15,512 cu. yds.

In this area the nrcs has a county average. On excavated ponds it is $l.48, probably cheaper than there.
Using that price on the proposed depths:
12 feet deep = $19685.48
10 feet deep = $17563.16
14 feet deep addition = $22957.76


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Derek
That price doesn't exactly sound all that unreasonable condsidering you are talking about almost 20,000 cy of material removed for 1.5 acres, 10 ft. deep. Where in SE michigan are you. I am in Fenton and know a few contractors in the area. The company I work designs subdivisions, condo developments etc... so we have alot of contact with contractors.


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Its how well you look doing it!

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Derek G Offline OP
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Between Saline & Milan

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Zhkent...
nice job with the calc's. Where did you get your base formulas from, NRCS Pub. 590?

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Brettski,
I use my own figures so buyers beware!
I do think they come out pretty close.
The distance of 1 slope equals the volume in 2 is how I figure it if slopes are the same.
Example 2 Slopes facing each other like the sides of a pond. 10 feet long 10 feet deep 3:1 each side, no bottom width. 10 long x 10 deep x 30 (distance of one slope) =3000 sq ft / 27 (to get to cubic yards) = 111.11 cu yds.
You would half this number to get the yardage of one slope.
On Derecks pond of an acre the distance if square would be 209 by 209 feet.
Figureing 12 feet deep I would subtract the distance of 1 slope (36 ft.)for east west distance and subtract 1 slope (36 ft.)for north south distance. This subtracts volume for all 4 slopes.
Then I figure the volume of a square hole 173 ft by 173 ft. 12 ft. deep.
173 x 173 = 29929 x 12 = 359148 sq ft and divide by 27 = 13,301.77 cu yds.

Guess I could of just said, No I didn't get it from there, and saved everyone some time.


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DEREK G
I MANAGE PONDS AND LAKES IN THE TOLEDO AREA. I HAVE A NAME OF AN EXCAVATOR IN THE DEERFIELD AREA THAT DUG A POND FOR THE FORD FAMILY. HE IS VERY REPUTABLE AND DOES VERY GOOD WORK. WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER A FEW TIMES AND HE REFERS CUSTOMERS TO ME AND I DO THE SAME FOR HIM.
RESP0ND AND I'LL GIVE YOU HIS NAME AND NUMBER.

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DG - 20K for a properly dug 1 acre excavated pond is normal. Go to the MSU extension office and buy the Managing Michigan Ponds for Sport fishing. Read the part on pond construction for MI, I think you should have some of the basin (25%-40%) deeper and to a depth of 16' to 20ft.


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Derek G Offline OP
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Thanks to everyone for the helpful posts.

Watergirl...sent you a PM about the local excavator.

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Derek

Since the pond is for swimming and decoration, I wonder how much needs to be added on to these basic costs that only cover the digging of the pond. You may not like muddy water.


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