Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site NRCS Worthless??

My question is how many of you have had a good experience with the NRCS? I
had the guy out to my place this week to look at locations that I wanted to
build a pond at. Now for a little back ground information on my place. I
have 2 locations that erosion has taken its toll before I bought the place.
Since I have purchased the place I have been able to slow one of the sites
from eroding away with the help of a local road construction contractor
that is redoing a 13 mile road in front of my place. He has brought me in 7
eighteen wheeler loads of material and still continues to bring it as
available. He need a place to put broke up concrete and asphalt. However
the gully is still 40 wide and 16 feet deep. I still need dirt to continue
filling in other wise my property could be cut in half needing a bridge or
helicopter to get my house. The other site is behind my house is about 2.5
acres and it is a lost cause as far filling in (but has a perfect pond view
from my back porch). The NRCS guy told me that the 2.5 acre site was no
good because the soil is wergated type soil (probably misspelled) and that
the pond would hold water, but due to the up hill bank slope it would silt
in to quickly. The up hill bank side of the pond would be 5’ above the dam
or down hill side of the pond. (How many of you have pond dug in the side
of a hill?)Because of this they were not willing to assist me in designing
the pond. Now mind you that I was not looking for money of any kind as I
own heavy equipment (Gradall with a 5’ digging bucket, 2 dump trucks,
roller and tractors) look at the pictures. I was just looking for expertise
on the subject matter. As I see it I have no choice but to dig the pond at
the 2.5 acre site and use the dirt to fill in the gully site and make
lemonade from lemons. How many of you have gone against the advice of the
NRCS? The guy that came out here was more interested in getting back in his
air-conditioned cab (government provided) after 2 months of trying to track
him down. (Left messages and went to his office). I know not ever site
people think is a good one really is. I guess I expected way too much from
this organization. To me it is a big waste of our money. I have included
some pictures of my situation below. Notice in one of the pictures there is
a mud puddle holding water from last Sunday! My dream is only to make that
mud puddle bigger!!!! I appreciate any and all feed back.

Tim,
Beautiful home! Beautiful terrain! I can easily see your desire for a pond.
NRCS worthless? Man, has this one been kicked around on this forum. The bottom line is "depends on the office and the agent". The half dozen or so offices I worked with in Illinois are strong. I got lesser pond interest in Indiana. I have read posts on here that were like your's: more interested in gettin' back into the A.C. JBL had a post on a different thread with the note: I looked at a 60 Ac parcel in central Illinois that had pond potential, but it too would have to be built into the side of a very long slope. That county NRCS office was up for it. I made one phone call and the information started flowing immediately. In fact, that was the office that sent me my hard copy of the Pub 590! I never even met this guy...just phone stuff weighing out the potential of the parcel. So....in response: No, they're not ALL worthless...not by a mile.
(edit: might be time to get a pond contractor out there for opinions. Are there any other ponds in the area? Find out who's diggin' em and get that guy over there)

NRCS worthless?
Depends??
Of course I could be a little biased. I’ve only worked with the Agency for about 28 years!

Its like anything I guess………….there are poor lawyers, computer specialists, doctors, contractors and marginal dentists, I’ve been told.

I’ve discovered that if someone is passionate about their work regardless of what it is, they tend to be very good at it. Personally, I have a passion for natural resources conservation, and I live and breathe the stuff on the job and at the ranch.

Ed
NRCS District Conservationist / Rancher
Niobrara County, Wyoming / Sioux County Nebraska

I certainly agree about the fact that there are people who have varying degree of skill, passion in any field. FWIW, my NRCS experiences have all been positive. When I walk in the office they treat me like a friend, serve me coffee, get the maps out and start answering questions like crazy. Good guys--'round here anyway.

Edward, Have you thought about moving? We sure could you some folks in Texas like you.

Im just curious if your told no by these guys are you subject to any kind of legal trouble if you go ahead and do it? Cause I see myself doing it.
And are these the only guys you need to talk to
government wise?

Our NRCS people are very good also but very over worked. The Farm Service Agency office next door is in even worse shape. The have gone from a staff of 11 to 3. They are good and do the best they can but what can you expect with that kind of reduction of man power.

Newpondguy, I told the man I was going ahead with the project while he was here. He didn't seem to mind me saying that. Just as long as he didnt have to have anything to do with it.

They do pretty good work in my area. Mike Otto reports that he was told that they are deemphasizing pond assistance.

Tim do you have any idea of the size of your watershed area for the proposed pond? Looking at the erosion you have it must be pretty substantial. I say build it once you have determined the watershed area. This will tell you what you need to do as far as freeboard and spillway size. Once you have that figured out start moving dirt.

On a side note. How many of you guys that have had NRCS ponds built looked at the cut fill sheets for the dam? In Missouri the dam is refered to as an erosion control structure. In other words if it holds water great, if not it is doing what it was built for, stopping erosion

JBL, Watershed for this pondsite is 5 acres. My area gets a average rain fall of 48 inches. The erosion was cause before the roads and ditchs were put in in this part of the country. Which at that time the watershed was closer to 50 acres.

JBL, I fogot to add that I can increase or decrease the watershed very easy at this site with my Gradall.

Tim,

Howdy neighbor. I'd like to provide you with another data point...perhaps with the same NRCS office.

When I was considering the decision to build a large pond behind our house, I knew it was not the optimum location from a watershed standpoint, but the location was important for other reasons.

I talked to several local people, including a local pond builder and looked at other ponds. I decided to build the 4 acre pond with only about 3 acres of watershed. After making the decision, I decided to ask the NRCS for advice. They did come out to the site, shot grade, and told me the pond would never fill up and even if it did, it would never stay full. That was about 5 years ago.

I built the pond, it filled that winter and stayed spillway full for about four years until the recent Texas drought. It is now about 2 or maybe approaching 3 feet down now....but so is just about everyone else's pond in this area. I have not regretted the decision one second....maybe I was lucky or maybe not.

The NRCS fellow used his text book tables to provide his advice. His textbook said I needed way more watershed...other ponds in my area I noticed didn't require the amount of watershed his textbook recommended.

I offer this experience to say do your homework and don't rely exclusively on any one source. The NRCS is a source of information and doesn't necessarily have all the answers.

My personal belief, apart from the advice the NRCS provides, is that I would never take money from NRCS or any Government agency in return for accepting their "strings" attached to my property....but that is just my personal feelings about the matter. Heck, I don't even like the idea of Government inspections of my land for assesing the agricultural exemption, but understand that it is necessary.

If you would like to view that pond, go the link below:

http://www.meadowlarkponds.com/nova.htm

Meadowlark,

I also believe were in the same area from the descriptions in your previous postings and dealing with the same NRCS office. But I don’t think that I have the same guy coming out as you did. The guy that was out here was very young. He probably was just graduating high school when you had them out 5 years ago. The lack of watershed is not a major concern for me at this time because the way this land lays over here, where I am at and the way it drains I could easily add 12 acres of watershed. Too add that much more watershed all I have to do is put culvert under my drive and dig a 200’ ditch. I am more concerned about getting it dug, planting grass and letting the land start heal itself.

Thanks,

Tim

PS. I vist your website all the time. Heck I was just there last week checking out your fish.This website, Yours and other PB member’s personal websites are what’s throwing the gasoline on my fire.

I know the feeling, Tim. I workin' with napalm.

Yes, based on my dealings with the NRCS in my county, the best thing that I can say about them is that they are worse than completely useless. However, that's not to say that the office as a whole is bad. I can only speak about my experience with my local branch.

My local guy was knowledgeable, and gave some good advice.

second or third time i've run across this subject of nrcs---in georgia they of little to no help to pond builders anymore---at least the two offices i tried offered no help. perhaps if you had political connections it might help.

It does.

I spent some time at the county NRCS office this afternoon (perhaps better known locally as the Soil & Water office) getting assistance on some planning for my 2nd pond (2007 target construction date). The local pond construction expert (to whom I owe a great deal of thanks for help with my first pond) helped me figure out several things fast that would have taken much longer on my own - topo & soil map reading (now available on-line at the county's website, I didn't know that), watershed area & drain line size info, and the dreaded WETLANDS CHECK (all clear!). When you've got a helpful local office with an experienced expert to help, it's really nice.