Originally posted by Bill Cody:
I have "played" around with a few redfin shiners as a forage pond fish. AS was mentioned they have very selective or unique spawning habits. Streams may not be an absolute requirement for spawning but one may see better recruitment of small redfins when spawning occurs in streams or moving water. I have never had them spawn successfully for me in a pond despite stocking them several times. That's not to say they won't spawn in a pond but I never had success with them.
I think one of the big disadvantages to them is they do NOT get as big as golden shiners (GS). When GS get too big for predation by most bass this is very good, because this guarantees broodstock to produce your next years crop of small shiners - forage. When your forage fish stays smallish (3"-3.5") as a mature or full grown adult it is constantly 24/7 vulnerable to being eaten. This is the main problem with FHM, the largest adults can be eatten by an 8" bass - not good if you need broodstock for next year's crop of minnows.
So unless your pond has EXTENSIVE amounts of cover don't expect redfins to live very long as small fish or as adults with LMB present. Redfins with some other predator there is maybe a better chance of survival, but with LMB life expectancy of redfins would likey be short, but a little longer than with FHM. If you constantly have to add breeders, it can get to be costly or become time consuming or work to keep breeders present.
Back to redfin spawning reqirements. Literature that I've read indicates the redfin has a very strong association with the green sunfish. The association has been linked to a chemical affiliation or a mutual attraction between the two fish. The association was noted to be strong enough that the redfins would only spawn in GSF nests and not anyother sunfish or BG nests. Isn't nature amazing? I suppose there are some rogue redfins that ignore this affiliation with GSF.
Stock some and watch for reproduction. I think your best chance of getting a crop of in-pond produced redfins would be to stock them during the redfin breeding season when they are full of eggs and looking for a place to lay them. Good luck with this and let us know if you ever get any redfin babies. I am interested in how to get this done in my pond.
Thanks for the info Bill... I'll update if I see any results... After looking at about 50 fish I trapped out of my creek... I have redfin shiners, red shiners, blacktail shiners and it looks like hybrids of those three..( all native to my area)
No doubt the red and redfin are much hardier than the blacktail... I dumped a few of all of them in my pond today (call it my experimental pond) and several of the blacktail died instantly because of shock....
It looks like red shiners will nest pretty much anywhere, even in open water as well as in or around sunfish nest, rocks or vegetation...
As far as golden shiners go, I didn't have much luck with them the times I stocked them.. I think the native Gambusia ate all or most of there egg's.. Not really sure what the problem was?
Speaking of Gambusia, those have problems in my pond as well and get hammered by BG and small bass anytime the venture outside their hiding places... Visited Meadowlark and his GGHBG/Pacu pond was just over-flowing with gambusia..
I dumped about 100 Gams I caught from my experimental pond (which is full of them) into my newly re-done pond and they were ravaged instantly in the clear water... Kind of funny..
Red shiners might be the best... I will study them some more as well..
Here is what I found on Red Shiners..
The red shiner is a true ecological generalist, an adaptive strategy that probably evolved during repeated exposures to desertification or extended aridity. Streams draining arid or semi-arid landscapes of the middle and southwestern U.S. are not ideal environments for most fishes, but the red shiner is just not any fish. Predominantly a denizen of creeks and small rivers, it is adapted to a wide range of environmental conditions, including seasonal intermittent flows, degraded habitats, poor water quality, and natural physiochemical extremes. The red shiner is moderately fecund, but its realized fecundity is high due to a protracted spawning season. While most other members of the genus Cyprinella spawn only in crevices (e.g., cracks or seams in rock, or bark fissures along submerged logs) and vegetation, red shiners can also broadcast in open water or attach adhesive eggs on rocks and vegetation as well.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
