Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations trying to figure it out.......

Went down to my pond this past saturday and did some fishing. All I ever caught was a bunch of "small bass". The lake was electro shocked and the report is that I am way to bass heavy! and that they all compete for food. I talked with my neighboor and he has the same problem with his pond as well. As stated in an earlier post, I though it would be a good oppertunity to stock black crappie. But the idea was shot down for obvious reasons. So now I am wondering what do I do? I try to keep ALL the bass I catch, but when you only catch 5 to 6 fish at a time it does not help. I also caught a very large channel cat, but I threw him back..do channel cat eat bream I know blues do? I am thinking about getting a feeder would this help? I would only want the bream to eat not the bass or catfish is this possible? Could anyone shed some light?

Your report should have been more specific than "to bass heavy". Please give us some more info.

In the meantime...invite a large group of friends for a cookout....and a day of fishing. Set a size limitation on what is removed based on what your survey should have said to remove.

You may have to repeat the above and open your lake up to fishing to remove alot of the bass if it is overpopulated.

NO ONE can give you an adequate response based on the info. you have given, and if that's all the info. you got, you need to seek "real" professional help.

To make a long story short, a guy who was going to lease the pond, had the pond electro shocked, I was not there to see it nor did I see the report, all I heard was that the pond was over crowded with "small bass". I live two hours from this pond and I might get down there once or twice a month, If I could do better I would. The neighbor has a pond as well and he has the exact same problem. The pond does seem to have real big channel cat, wonder if I should be harvesting these as well...He also said that both his and my ponds are full of something called "roaches"?? Some sort of fish I persume...does any one know what these are? Any way if any one else has any ideas it would be helpfull

thanks..

What to do about the over populated bass would depend alot on the size of your pond. If it is around 1 acre a little fishing pressure and a little corective stocking can make an enormous difference. If it a 25 acre lake that is a differnt story. You also said nothing about what the population, condition, or species of your forage fish. So I can't tell you anything about how to fix the bass problem. I would recomend talking directly with the people who shocked your lake and geting as much specific information as possible.

But, what I can tell you is that channel catfish are a preditor fish so they definatly do eat the bream (if they are not fed). And if you feed the bluegill the catfish will eat it the pellets too, but that is not really a bad thing because there will be plenty left for the bream, and when the catfish are fed they'll just grow bigger faster. More importantly though when catfish are fed they don't need to eat your bream and will no longer compete with your bass. So I wouldn't wory in the slightest about catfish eating it the pellets.

The pond at one point was thought to be close to 9 acres but from talikng with the neighbors it seems it might be closer to 10 acres and around 13 feet deep in the deepest part. There are bluegill and shellcracker for forage. There does not seem to be as many bream as there should be. I sould see schools of them around some of the dead trees in the water. There also something called roaches in the pond, what ever they are I was told they were some sort of fish.... Every time I go down there it always the same thing, lots of small bass a couple of bream or two, and an occasional large channel cat. I can't tell you any more about the electro shock because I am not the one who had it done. I did not even pay for any of the cost, the person who had it done was going to lease the place from me, but he died in a car reck last week.....

Harvest, harvest, harvest those small bass. I have the same problem in my lake that is about the same size. Anything smaller than one pound is a goner. It sounds cruel, but I smack them in the back of the head and throw them back in the lake. I have seen on several instances large bass come up to the surface and eat one of the smaller ones that I just smacked. You just have to get as many of the small ones out as possible. Also feed your bluegill with automatic feeders and fertilize the lake to increase bluegill production. If your goal is larger bass, I would keep and eat the catfish as they will compete with your bass to some degree. As far as whether you need to stock additional bluegill, you really need professional advise, but it probably would not hurt.

I heard the term "roaches" to describe golden shiners. Electoshock is a good analysis tool but is also great to quickly remove stunted bass. I don't know where the pond is located, but we can perfrom the analysis and populaiton correction. The management reports desrcibes current status as well as recommendtaions according to your fishing goals on the following: harvest of specific sizes, pounds, and species of fish, fish stocking options, supplemental feeding, fertilization/lime applications, weed/algae measures, water quality improvements, etc. In other words in may be a good idea to have the work done on your budget so you can get the results and make proper improvements. If it is "bass heavy" you should be able to catch tons of stuned bass in the spring by having friends over for a fish fry as mentioned. Good luck. www.lakework.com

Greg how much would you charge to come down to sandersville and do what you just described? the pond is said to be close to 10 acres, don't know if I believe it or not...but any way you could do the electro shocking and remove the stunted bass. Also, what do you recomend as far as a feeder goes and what would you charge to put one out? and finally we talked, way back, about stocking some blues in the pond, you said that you could get them for 2.50 per pound for 1 lbs fish can you still do this?

Big Pond, The full blown electroshock analysis trying to answer every possible question you have is $500 plus $1 mile from Ball Ground or max of $600 in GA. I may be able to do it the sametime as others down the Sandersville way for the $500 price. A good time would be late March thru mid May.

I sold the blue cats I bought from the N. GA mountians, but may be avail again this spring. They went to the client I mentioned that has channels and flatheads. He understands the complications of managing these species but I feel we have a good plan in place.

The feeder I recommend is the Stren ADF-75D you can view them on my site and it is $450 with solar panel and 12 volt rechargeable battery. I charge $100 to put together and install in pond, but it is easy for you to do it yourself. I look forward to hearing from you, Greg

The 3 and 1/2 acre pond I'm managing has the same bass problem. I did some reading and most recommend taking out 25 pounds of bass per acre as quickly as possible, preferably before the spawn so they don't restock the pond with more bass and eat up the newborn bluegills. I figured it takes at least two fish under 12" to equal a pound of bass, so 25x2=50 bass per acre X number of acres. I took out 108 bass last spring and plan to remove another 50 to 100 this spring. It didn't take me long to remove them. In late spring when the bass were hitting topwaters I simply used a rebel popper and was able to remove about 25 to 30 bass each trip. Switch to a spinner when you've fished out the topwater action to finish the day.

I purchased a Stren feeder last year and am very pleased with it plus the price was right - it is very high quality and reliable - simple to set up - one other idea on the placement of a feeder - I built a wooden dock about 6 x 6 and placed two styrofoam blocks under it and anchored it out in the lake. I placed my feeder on it and it works great - a little of a hassle having to put feed sacks in a the boat and taking them out to fill it, but a shore feeder can be a problem with feed washing back to the bank and/or water levels going up and down forcing constant movement of the feeder.

Hello to all members.I have read the problems with the bass and would like to share some ideas that might help you obtain your goal of a well managed fish population.The fact that you are not looking at prevention is the issue that I would like to adress.The lake as a whole must be looked at to see if it has all the right elements needed to grow large fish in all spieces.I havent seen any thing said about what kind of structure that this lake has or dont have.There seems to be a need to have the fish tested in a lab to see signs of stress from disease or from enviroment.The signs I would look for as far as the bass would be long narrow body with a over sized head.These bass could be older fish that have been stunted to the point that they will not increase in size.This has probably caused your balance problem.With the amount of fish that was caught the problem might be better solved with the addition of proper struture.I belive that feeding will only add to the problem.The catfish will become oversized and cause added pressure to food sorces for other fish.The way I would treat this problem is to set up a cage culture for growing blue gill to a 4to6"size then stock at proper places in the lake where there is good stucture.I would do this at a rate of 500 per acre and expect a 50% to live.This needs to be done in 4 parts.Two times a year for two years.Then take a fish survey to see if you have growing healthy bass and bluegill these hints maybe cheaper and more afective in the long run.good luck DOC

I have never seen a bass that sunts to a point that it stops growing. Free up food and it begins growth again. A fish is not like other animals it continues to grow as long food is avaial and energy is left after survivial and reproduction to grow. Nor do I agree adding structure will do anything to help growth.

Two things must happen either reduce the competetion for food (bass harvest) or increase food. This occurs in many ways:stocking addtional forage species, stocking additional bluegill, fertilizing to increase carrying capacity, increase bluegill size by supplemental feeding, reduce competetion for prey by removing competeing species, etc.

I would have to agree with Greg on both counts... and I really don't see how structure has anything to do with how many pounds per acre or growth rate or lack thereof. Sure structure may congregate forage species or provide them places to hid, (Same with predators), but that doesn't necessarily affect your predators to the point of stunting, if at all in these ascpects. If anything if there is too much structure, weed etc. one could expect slower growth with the increased diffculty in finding forage. I am no expert but generally if fish have ample food they will grow, one need only look at cage or raceway fish culture to see that.

Im sorry but I think you missed the point that I was trying to make. The goal I was shooting for was to bring the lake back to proper fish levels with the way I layed out you would not need to harvest a huge amount of small bass.There would be enough food sources for bass to start a fast growth rate and with added structure plenty of insects and forage to substain a good healthy blue gill population.This is a coarse to get the lake back to self management level not for just the bass but all the species in the lake.As far as the structure issue that information was not given so it may or may not be needed.The thing that might help to speed things along as far as bluegill are concerned as far as being able to feed them as a target species the method I would choose if possible would be a bug zapper above a feeding area with the coarse that I submitted those over abundant 12" bass will be 16to18" inch fighting monsters.With bluegill 6to8" size hanging around just for the taking.This is the method that I have used for this problem for many of my customers with the same exact problem and it has worked every time.It is not a quick fix but will get things back on track in the long run.thanks for the reply. doc

I agree with you Doc it takes some time to growout a stunted fish, but the amount of bass harvest is somtimes very high maybe even greater than 25 lbs/acre. This is will help all fish not just bass b/c more bluegill will survive. Of course if you want a quality bluegill pond keep it bass heavy and the average size of bluegill will be much higher. I like the idea of a bug lite, but in additon to a feeder. It puts in much less protein than an effective feeder will.

Thanks for the reply Greg.Your right about the good bluegill but the real plus is for all types of fish in the lake.The bass will in this lake will grow at a faster rate by consuming the 4"to6"bluegills and that is theyre target size anyway.I think that the bluegill that will surive will have a rapid growth rate as well because the bass will not be competing for the small forage that is needed to feed a healthly bluegill population. The already large cats will keep down the over population.I really dont think that a feeder in this case would be best I think that the cats need to comsume the offspring. with this method the lake in a year or two will be stocked full of huge fish then harvest away.The thought of catching bass and throwing them out on the bank does not apeal to me when there is a way to prevent it.Harvesting small not ready fish is no fun either.Hope this System is more appealing than that. DOC

From what research I've done I agree with both you guys. Stunted bass do need to be removed. On the other hand, from what I've read a lack of good structure can also have some effect, be it even minor, on bass size. This is based on two factors- brushy structure provides feeding, nesting, and hiding areas for small fish and other creatures- and structure also allows a bass to "sit and wait" for his meal as apposed to roaming a barren landscape to find it, burning up energy. I also like the bug zapper idea. Just my thoughts. No expert, just an amature researcher.

I have read all of the above posts and to tell you the truth Greg makes a lot of sense. If you have to many predators for a particular body of water you need to reduce their numbers. There is only so much food any pond or lake can produce.

If you have to many bass or catfish (ie predators) take them out. From what I have read bass will continue to reproduce to the point that they will stunt and exhaust their food supply. By reducing their numbers you free up some food and break the stalemate, thus growth ocurrs.

Now as to feed or not feed. If you are in fact attempting to grow big bass, you need a good blue gill fishery. To aid this endeavor you need to use supplemental feeding. The feeding will also reduce the other predators (ie. Catfish) dependence on natural forage. The use of structure goes without saying. No I am not an expert and probably have no right to comment on this subject, but I do have some practical experience.

You see Bob Lusk I have been listening!!!!!!!

In my opinion, raising trophy bass is almost identical to raising trophy whitetail deer (which I do) - Three items must be present - a. good genetics b. enough of a good food source with nutrition and c. age. With deer, the greatest factor is probably age since a deer with great genetics and good nutrition will still never be a top end trophy unless they reach 5-7 years of age. Seems to me a trophy bass must also have genetics, sufficient food/nutrition, and time to grow. Too many deer in one area will deplete the food availability therefore limiting nutrition. Likewise, too many bass in a pond will limit the nutrition therefore limiting potential size of the bass. Ranch managers of deer are constantly culling and removing does and inferior bucks in an effort to limit the numbers and therefore increasing available food source for those left. I have experienced significant improvment in the health and size of the bass in my lake (which was grossly overpopulated with small bass when I got it) by aggressively removing all bass under 14 inches until the population became balanced. I then imposed an on going slot limit and continue to cull. Fewer mouths to feed along with good food source, good genetics, and some age will ultimately produce large bass. Finally, one other factor Bob Lusk taught me was this: old trophy bass don't live and act the same as young small bass. Their habits, where they live, how they feed, etc. are totally different from small bass. This of course is similar to the habits of a trophy buck versus a young buck or doe. Totally different lifestyles. Lesson being, don't fish for a trohpy bass or hunt a trophy deer the way you would a young, small bass or deer.

Timk did you read one of my articles :rolleyes: , I too mentioned the deer analogy. Newbee it seems you have been listening very closely to the folks on this Pond BOss site.

Doc this is what makes this forum interesting I still disagree with your last post.

you said
"The bass will in this lake will grow at a faster rate by consuming the 4"to6"bluegills and that is theyre target size anyway.
1. First of all in a stuned bass populaiton the pond's lack of 3-6 inch bluegill is an indicator. It will take sometime to even see this size bluegill in the pond for awhile since it is the preferred size (as you said)forage of 10-14 inch. This is why it takes sometime for the stunted bass to grow. They did not stunt overnight nor will they gain weight overnight.
2. ALso I feel the bluegill grow faster in a bass heavy pond b/c there is limited bluegill and they have plenty of their forage. You said "bluegill that will survie will have a rapid growth rate as well because the bass will not be competing for the small forage that is needed to feed a healthly bluegill population" This is not true the bass compete for a compeltely diff. food source than intermediate bluegill. Keeping bass will slow bluegill growth by allowing more bluegill to survive thus increasing competetion amongest the bluegill.

3. you said "The already large cats will keep down the over population.I really dont think that a feeder in this case would be best I think that the cats need to comsume the offspring. with this method the lake in a year or two will be stocked full of huge fish then harvest away."

Big pond said he had channel cats. I promise you a pond with just channel cats and bluegill will be overun with bluegill. They can not keep down the over populaiton. Plus he said he saw few of them. A feeder would help by allowing the catfish an alternate food source. SInce they could be eating some bluegill I admit. This will allow more bluegill to feed the bass.

Seriously, Are you missing with me, and trying to make me right long post?

Ok...
you all say that channel cats do eat the bream but how much of an impact do the channels really have? How do they compare to the Bass? For example how does a 2 lb channel compare with a 2 lb bass? Would they consume as much bream as the bass would? What rate then should I be removing the channels? I don't think they are reproducing in my pond. Do channels eat bass? If so, maybe some of the larger channels could forage on some of these stunted bass.

I like large catfish....
If you remember a while back I said I wanted large cats! Hence the reason I wanted to stock a few blues...This was one of the main reasons why I bought this tract of land. Truthfully I would not mind a few flatheads (I do mean very few), but I know they are some what unrealistic. If I had to do it all over again, I would stock a few catfish for the same reason I would not stock a lot of bass. I would only go about 15 to 25 fish per acre with a mix of blues and channels.

Now with that being said, I do want good bass fishing I do have to get too serious with trophy bass managment, but I wuold like to have a few good size bass, for my self and for all who enjoyed good bass fishing.

But I am stuck with what I have...a 9 acre lake with a bunch of stunted bass a few bream, and some large channels, and no blues.

Any way this feed back is so helpfull you all keep writing...I really enjoy this site and the magazine as well..

Big_Pond

I think I understand what you want, a diverse pond with several different speicies. I believe that this is within your reach. Your only problem is, for the time being, you have too many bass, not enough blue gill and no blue cats.

The first thing I would do is get a proffesional survey of the lake. This way you could have a game plan and maybe save some money in the long run. You might only need to add some specific size blue gill, start a feeding program and add your blue cats to bring your pond up to your expectations, but you won't know that until you can see what is under that water.

No an expert, I have just been listening to you.

Newbee,
How are your blues doing? Are they still outgrowing your channels? How big are they now?

Hey guys do large channels forage on bass? If not I here that Blues do.

I would ultimatly, I would like to have a wide diversity of fish as many different types as possible! But I know this is not possible. So what it looks like I need to do is get a feeder and install it on the lake, first of all. My only fear being that I live two hours away from the pond in Atlanta. Then I need to fish it as much as possible. If I started all over again I would do 20% read-ear 40% coppernose 40% native, and have them on the feeder then stock the basb and blues, and maybe channels.

Big_Pond,

I have had really good luck with the fish I have stocked. I guess I was real lucky, I know it was not skill and knowledge at the time. The blues growth has leveled off and are running neck and neck with the channels (heavier and longer still). Both species are doing very well and the largest are approaching 18 to 19 inches (pretty good for four inch fingerlings stocked in July).

The coopernose blue gill and Hybrid are doing great and are enormous (nine inches in length and fat!!!!) thanks to the Aquamax 600 I have been feeding. The bass are right at twelve inches and look healthy. I am following the advice of the Pond Boss and it seems to be paying off. The only thing I would do different would be not to stock the hybrid bream. They have not been a problem as yet, but after reading up on them I'm scared that they will eventually revert back to the green subfish.

I have been hard headed about some things, like having ducks on the pond (not recommended), but I can't help it I love seeing them there. I think it is important to listen to the experts, but it's also important to make yourself happy too. I never set out to have double digit bass (although it would be nice) in my pond. I just wanted a place where me and my son could relax, catch some fish and talk. Is'nt that what its all about?