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Joined: Feb 2004
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I'd like to invest as little as possible on a bottom air diffuser system. I have electricity within 30 yards inside my garage (where I could keep my pump and trench airline to the pond). The pond is a small earth embankment pond that is about 14 feet deep and 30 yards by 30 yards in size. I saw this pump on Auquatic Eco-Systems and I wonder if it will provide enough power. Any advie??? Here\'s the pump
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You have approx .185 acre if my math is correct. I do not see what the cfm output of this pump is.It seems to be an import without a UL listing and a very limited warranty. Also I do not see what diffuser is being used. Try to find a pump with a 1.5 CFM rating like their fb109, it will not take much to turn your pond,Good luck Ted
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Their site says that it's a "Deep Water Compressor" but it looks like an aquarium pump.
That gast compressor is a bit out of my price range. It is possible to go cheaper on this?
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Originally posted by NyQuiLlama: Their site says that it's a "Deep Water Compressor" but it looks like an aquarium pump.
That gast compressor is a bit out of my price range. It is possible to go cheaper on this? I use the following 1/20th hp air compressor at .7 cfms for my 88 by 59 foot trout pond that is 9 feet deep. It produces good mixing in that size pond at that depth. I think it would be fine for your size pond. http://www.stoneycreekequip.com/form/compress.htm For the compressor alone the price is $195.00 and it has a warranty. I run mine 24/7 from April to October. I believe this is a good price for a quality air compressor. Not sure what Tea lea Forevergreen offers but this is what I use. I occasionally order from AES but they seem quite high in price on many items and Stoney Creek is much closer for shipping. I also know the owner personally.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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I you are mechanically inclined. Go to the junk yard and get an air conditioner compressor from a car. Connect it (belt driven) to a 1/4hp motor. It should make enough air to mix your small pond cheaply.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Bill,
How efficient and dependable will this set up be? Will this be an example of penny wise pound foolish? If it was me I would spend a little more for a commercial unit.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Another good source is http://www.candhsales.com They have a 1.5 cfm open flow compressor .39 cfm at 4psig that only draws 45 watts. The stock number is PC2050 and the cost is 39.95. I have done business with them for over 20 years and they are a great surplus electronics place. They also have many other Gast and other brand compressor motors of varying output for very reasonable prices.
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Cecil - I never built one of these do-it yourself units; just heard about it. Since it is pretty cheap, a backup compressor would be a real good idea. I would think the electric motor would be pretty dependable and may not need a backup.
I'm not sure of the psi or cfm produced. I may check into this idea this summer with a car mechanic. I'm sure the air conditioner compressor has specs to give one an idea of what it can produce.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Bill, Just a note .. The air cond. compressor is not oil-less. A very small amount of oil will end up in the pond.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Okay. Thanks for the tip. Then you would have to install an oil trap or filter to remove any oil as it enters the airline. How are car air conditioner compressors oiled? internally? As far as I know, Oil does not have to be added to them; at least I do not oil mine.
I also had a fellow use a compressor from a dehudimifier to run a pond diffuser. That did not use oil.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Bill, it is my understanding that car A/c is oiled by freon
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Ok, A/c & dehumidifier compressors need oil for lubrication. Refrigeration circuits of which the compressor is a part are hermetically sealed. The compressor is charged with oil at the factory. Unless there is a very serious refrigerant leak oil does not leave the ref. circuit and therefor it isn't necessary to add oil. Dehumidifier compressors are the same as a/c compressors. Pumping air there will not be much oil loss but it could possibly be enough to cause problems in a small coi pond? Dave, Refrigerants (Freon is Dupont brand name) are solivents containing no lubrication properties. Manufactors have to match oils to specific refrigerants. If intrested I will elaborate but don't want to bore.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
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Would seem a lot easier to "bite the bullet" and purchase the correct pump or system and make your pond and fish "HAPPY" !! again just my 2 cents. Ted
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Thanks for all of the feedback! Assuming I use Bob's suggested pump... found at the top of the page here. What would you folks recommend for an eqaully low cost diffuser and tubing?? It's not that I don't care about my fish/pond. It's just that I figure SOMETHING is better than NOTHING. Unfortunatly "SOMETHING" is all I can afford.
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Here's my 2 cents. I have looked at alot of diferent cheap ideas for aerating, and have come to the conclusion that cheap is not always better. I have tried cheap compressors from garage sales, cheap compressors from motor shops, and have found that they dont last running 24/7. I did however try an air pump that came out of a septic aeration system, it is also the same type of pump that comes off an automotive engine for pumping air into the exhaust. The problem was that it was noisy even after I put it in an insulated box.
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The point is I can't afford anything over $100 for the complete system. I want to do something to help the ecosystem and the best thing I can do right now is aerate. This means that either I can say "Oh, I can't afford a quality pump, so I won't aerate," or I can say, "there must be something I can do for under $100, anything is better than nothing."
Can anyone suggest tubing and a diffuser?
Thanks!
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Here is another look at the pump that Bob suggested from the Gast website. It is #1532. Any thoughts on this pump for my application? Gast Pump for $40
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Joined: Dec 2002
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The 1532 would easily mix your pond. I have a Gast diaphragm compressor, .9 cfm at 10 psi. I run 300 feet of 1/2" poly connected to a weighted garden soaker hose. My pond is a little larger than yours and my Rainbows did well through a hot dry summer. I ran it 24/7 until the heat of summer and then only when air temps were cooler than the water temp, usually at night or cool cloudy days. Since I have trout, I have to be careful with warming the water and my system easily de-stratified my small pond. The $40 price tag is too good to pass up. 3/4" black poly water line is cheap as is the soaker hose. Should work excellent for you. Btw, the soaker hose idea was from Bob Koerber, some time ago. This may not apply to you, but it didn't create enough surface boil to keep an area ice free this winter. No suprise for me. John
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Joined: Jan 2003
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John , i don't know how the heck you people handle winters up there, summer must fly. my hats off to ya.
i only wanted to have some fun
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Okay gang, I just ordered the $40 Gast Pump. Thanks for all the advice on that. Now I need to figure the best tubing and diffuser system to use.
My pump has a 1/8" female NPT output port. Does this mean I would need to use 1/8" tubing? Wood recommended using 3/4" tubing, would I need to increase the hose size from the port? I'm not sure where to look for these attachments.... would the hardware store have everything else I need if I just ordered 3/4" tubing?
Also, on the soaker hose, I have some. How long of a section should I cut? What about coiling it in a plastic bucket, filling the bottom with gravel, and sinking it to the bottom? Or, would it be best to but one of those fancy diffusers?
Thoughts and opinions are most welcome as I am a complete aeration newbie. Thanks!
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I should also add that I live in Northern Wisconsin. I have about 30 trout (brookie and brown). I have several feet of ice over the pond right now. I hope the trout survived the winter.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Ny, I would buy an adapter fitting, 1/8 male to 1/2 or 3/4 female. The reason I suggested 3/4 poly line was to match your higher CFM compressor and to reduce air flow loss over long distances. If it is a short run to the pond from the comp. location, then 1/2" should be fine. Also purchase barb fittings (king nipples) that have 1/2" male pipe x 1/2" barb to fit into poly line and use a hose clamp. You will need a garden hose adapter at the soaker end to screw it on. I used a 16 foot soaker hose and suspended it off bottom with rope and javex bottles. Coiling it in a bucket may work well also, providing the hose does not kink and cut off air supply. You should look at putting an adjustable relief valve at the compressor end in case of blockage somewhere. This will require a few more fittings to adapt it. Hardware store should be able to supply everything for this job, or Revy if you have one there.
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Hi Wood I have replaced my soaker hose with a tree soaking ring that I got from Home Depot, it already was in a circle and had all the fittings on it.
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Thanks for all of the great help!
I'm curious however about the size of the bubbles from the soaker hose. I know that smaller bubbles move more water and add more air. And I've heard that larger bubbles are better for keeping ice off (it was debated in another thread, I'm not presenting this as a fact). Are the amount and size really that important? Would I be cutting the utility of my pump by using soaker hose or a tree watering ring as opposed to a mid-range membrane diffuser?
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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NQL - Basics of bubbles for aeration is smaller is best, but as the size of the bubbles is reduced to a certain point then diffuser clogging of the pores becomes an issue.
Two main things cause pore clogging. 1. Mineral deposits precipitate from the water at the pore location and 2. growth forms at, around, then over the pore. Growth is in the form of bacterial and or algae deposits. This happens even if air is coming out the holes 24/7. Different materials clog at different rates and at different water chemistries and water clarities.
Quickest clogging materials we have found to be soaker hose then porus ceramic air stones. Slowest clogging materials have been flexable membrane diffusers. The more flexable diffuser "skin" the slower the clogging.
Clogging of the check valve at the diffuser can also be a problem based on structure and compostion of the check valve. To minimize problems and trouble free operation I recommend annual cleaning or at least annual inspection of the diffuser. .
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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