CJ- If I do wait 2-3 years to stock sunfish, should I just stock adults? I like the idea of RBS, although I don't know of anyone who could stock them in New England. Does anyone know of anyone? I don't know much about them. Do they reproduce less often, or have fewer offspring. What's the real advantage over PKs?
If you wait 2 or 3 years and allow your SMB to get in the 12"-15" range, then I would stock adult sunfish. Say, in the 5"+ range and around 50 per acre per species. So say you decide to stock both PS and RBS. You'd need to stock around 200 of each species. You may even be able to get away with less if you are willing to have some patience. These are not going to be the back bone of your forage base like BG would be in a LMB/BG pond, so you don't need large numbers making babies to feed your bass... That is what the other forage species are doing. As far as sourcing them... I can't recall the place, but I know there is at least 1 hatchery in NY that sells RBS and several that sell PS. I know of several that sell RBS in the southeast and a few will ship them overnight UPS or FedEx.
Here's some info on BG, RBS and PS to help you out:
BG:
Reproductive Habits:
Mature at age 1 or 2
Spawning occurs May to September
Males build colonial nests in shallows on sand or gravel
Females spawn several times a year
Fecundity is about 80,000 eggs per female per year
RBS:
Reproductive Habits:
Mature at age 2
Spawning occurs May to August at water temperatures of 61-82.5°F
Males build nests over silt-free or lightly silted sand and gravel in cover
Nests are usually grouped closely together in calm pool margins
Fecundity is about 963-8,250 eggs per female
PS:
Reproductive Habits:
Mature in 1-3 years
Spawning occurs early May to August
Nest in colonies on sand and small gravel in open shallow areas
Fecundity is 1,034-2,436 eggs per female per year
I do know baitshops that sell northern redbelly dace, and plan to ask around for them or any of the other two forage species.
NRBD make great bate and are often used for that purpose... Just make sure they are northern and not southern RBD. Southern RBD are not adapted to pond life and probably will survive in a pond, but won't be able to reproduce... So they would be a waste of money and effort as a forage fish.
I don't want TM. I think they will go after my WE, YP and SMB before they look at sunfish.
I think that is a smart decision. Maybe after you have several years under your belt, you can stock 1 every year or every other year if you see your YP or SMB getting too numerous. Other than that, I'd skip them...
We'll see about Brown trout. I might add a few of them eventually once the balance is set.
Brown trout won't reproduce in your pond, so they are easily controlled. If you don't like them, fish the ones you stocked out and no worry of piles of babies to deal with. That is the nice thing about stocking fish that can't reproduce in ponds. They are easier to manage.
There is a spring, but it isn't very large and doesn't do much to the pond and there is a stream that only flows after rains and during the spring. It comes from the marsh, which does not contain any fish besides small minnows which I believe are some kind of chub. They only get about 3" max.
If you can, set a trap or try to net some of those minnows you think are chubs and any other fish you catch in the marsh. If they are there and it sometimes connects up with your pond, they're also in your pond... I would be curious to see what species they are and whether they would be a benefit to your pond as an added forage, or a detriment. Take photos of them and post on here so we can ID them for you.
It has been dry around here, and water has kept very well, better than I thought. How do I test water clarity? Is it when an object comes out of view?
Do a search for Secchi disk on here. There are several good threads on how to build and use them to measure water clarity. For your goals and where you are located in the country(northern), fertilization probably isn't a good idea. Too much risk, particularly if you are trying to have trout live year round in your pond.
I was thinking about deepening the creek when it is dry and adding rock to create a channel. Possibly some WE spawning?
The odds of you building a structure that will allow walleye to successfully spawn is minimal with much expense. I would search for a supplier of walleye in NY or VT. Even if you were able to get them to successfully spawn, the odds of the young surviving to harvestable sizes would also be slim. There just aren't many bodies of water that have naturally sustaining walleye populations out there. Even man made reservoirs with larger feeder rivers rarely produce a naturally sustaining walleye population. I would save your money and time to spend on another goal...
Alright, recap. I'm going to try to find some other forage fish like the ones CJ kindly mentioned. Other fish species include SMB and YP. I still want more info of RBS and PK sunfish. Finally Walleyes. Could somebody help me out on stocking rates? I also plan on trying out a mix of rainbows and brooks, maybe 30 as somebody said. Just to see how they do, I hope the brooks can survive the summers.
I would keep the walleye numbers fairly low. Walleyes just don't seem to do well in ponds. 10-20 per acre per year. As I already mentioned, I wouldn't bother trying to get them to naturally reproduce in your pond.
There is no reason why you can't stock both RBS and PS. They have a much lower fecundity than BG and typically spawn once in the spring and then are done, unlike the continued rolling spawn of BG. Utilize them as an added panfish for eating and for the kids to enjoy catching, but you won't rely on them as backbone forage species. Your shiners and minnows will be the back bone.
Experiment with low numbers of trout at first to see if they even will survive the summer in your pond. If they do, then you can consider adding more. If you feed pellets, they will compete little with your other fish and focus mostly on pellets.
Here's my recap opinion:
A pond with SMB/WE as primary predators and YP/RBS/PS as panfish, utilizing FHM/GSH/BNM/BKF and NRBD as primary forage could work if the right habitat is there and you don't allow the SMB to become overcrowded. When they start reproducing you will need to start keeping catch records and most likely remove SMB. Now if your pond for what ever reason doesn't produce good SMB spawns, the complete opposite may be the case. You'll need to make sure your SMB and WE are properly controlling your YP so they don't over crowd and over eat your forage as well. You can assist them by removing most of the YP egg strands you observe in the early spring. Research this in the archives as both Bill Cody and Cecil Baird are masters at this method and grow huge perch by heavily controlling their numbers. You can also consider stocking SMALL numbers of TM over the years to assist you in controlling SMB and YP. But, I suspect the TM would much rather prey are large GSH than spiny perch and bass so you using hook and line is probably the best control. Put redbreast sunfish and pumpkinseed sunfish into Google and search them. Read up on them and decide if you want them. I see no reason why you can't have both in your pond. Stock small numbers of trout to see if they will survive year round. If they do, they can be an extra bonus fish. If they don't you can stock them in the fall and utilize them as a put and take fishery through the colder months as most forum members who use trout in their ponds do.
One last thing, with your pond being fairly close to another BOW, there is risk of unwanted species making entry. Try to determine that there are only the 3" chubs and nothing else in that BOW. If there are LMB, GSF or others this could really throw the plans out of whack. So take a close look at that. You will most likely see a natural migration of wild crayfish from the marshy area into your pond. However, you can trap them from the marshy area and assist them in finding your pond. Walk rocky areas of your pond as night with a spot light and shine the water. If you see crayfish, you know they found your pond on their own. They will be heavily utilized by the SMB. SMB are more able to do well on less fish and more inverts than LMB. That's why I think this stocking plan is more likely to work out.
