Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Where to begin?

I have recently discovered this forum, and have been reading for hours. The more I read the more confused I get! So, I guess the best place to get started is to describe my situation. I have a horse farm with a one acre pond in the center. The pond is 16 years old. The land is in the shape of a "U" with 3 sides falling to the middle, which is the pond. The fourth side is the dam. The pond is spring feed and continuously flows. During our worst drought in history the pond dropped 8". The pond is 12' deep at the dam and is 2'-3' at the other end. The dam is steep 3-1 pitch. I do have the as built drawings for the pond. I purchased the property at auction and do not know what was stocked in the pond. The pond had suffered serious run off problems from the surrounding land due to poor pasture management. I have renovated all of the pastures alleviating that problem. Had to replace the riser and drain through the dam, what an education, an immense project. Having all the mechanics of the pond repaired, its fish time! Please bare with me, I am an avid offshore fisherman that knows nothing about fresh water fish.
This is what I have seen in the pond. We have bass 12" - 16", crapie, blue gill, yellow perch, I believe hybrid rockfish, catfish, and six large ,24" - 30", red & white, 1 all white fish I believe are either carp or koi.
Most of these have been identified visually just by walking the edge. I fished it one time. Did not have to cast the line just drop it in along the edge and instant fish. I could see most of the fish before I hooked them. The proverbial like fishing in the fish tank!
Along the edges of the pond, in the water, there seems to be no vegetative growth. It is just dirt and a few rocks. It looks like it was just dug. Once a year we will get a bloom, not very large, that floats to the top. It usually blows to one side and I lift it out with a net. I do put 6 bales of barley in the pond. I was told it would help with the bloom.
Now after the life story, my question is how do I manage the pond, Where do I begin. Be gentle I am delicate.


Thanks in advance for your time and effort.
Ron

A couple of thoughts:

First, what do you enjoy? You and only you can define your goals.

Second, you have a pretty complicated mixture. Just on the surface, the crappie, hybrid rockfish (?), etc. aren't that desirable. The fact that you catch fish without trying sounds like underfed due to lack of forage or a never fished pond with ignorant fish.

I believe I might get a pro to do an analysis. It might be prudent to rotenone and start over.

Keep your checkbook handy.

Dave,
Thanks for the response. My goal is to have a nice healthy pond. My definition of that is as folllows:

1.Occassional fun fishing . Not a food source.
2.Maintain a good environment for the wildlife.

I have to wonder if I should invoke the "Dont kick the sleeping dog" phrase. The pond may be fine the way it is, thats the issue, I do not know that. Trying to find people to help answer the question is an extremely hard job here in Maryland. I have not had any fish kills, except for the Blue Heron feeding. But I do realize it is its own enclosed world. I have to wonder what the fish are eating, I guess the strong survive. By the size of those Koi it looks like there doing fine. I would of expected to see some vegetative growth in the shallows on the flats, but there is none. This may be fine, once again I do not Know. Should I add small bait fish, structure, or do nothing?
With regards to the checkbook, I feel it is worth the investment. I enjoy and respect the environment. A pond in Maryland is a total treasure. The state will not allow any new ponds to be constructed do to the trout streams. I have a good friend who is an engineer for the state who told me their has not been a pond approval with out an act of god. Hey, whats a couple a thousand between me and the Fishsss! :p
I knew the pond would be a complicated issue, just not to what extent. Then I go back to the old its been there 16 years, something must be working. The owner before me did nothing except build it and stock it.
I found an eel in the spillway, add that to the list.
Thanks,
Ron

Gates, my feeling is that if it suits you, it's OK. You didn't mention the general health of the fish you have caught. Fat or skinny or?

It sounds like the fish are eating their own young which is what fish do. I think I would start pulling some of the crappie out. They can overspawn and cause a problem.

Other than that, you just need to recognize that you don't have a well balanced pond but if it suits you, it's OK. If you do want a well balanced pond, then call a pro to make recommendations. With that mix, I expect they would tell you to start over. Or buy a whole bunch of spawning size bluegills to try to establish a proper forage base.

I would subscribe to the Pond Boss Mag and buy the book Raising Trophy Bass by Bob Lusk. Both put a lot of things in perspective. I'm not associated with either of them.

One thing about starting over. You will get hooked just as surely as the rest of us. Who knows? It may already be too late.

Dave,
The fish were thin. The reason I bought the property was the pond, so I guess that makes me kinda hooked . I guess I need to understand what a balanced pond is. Its hard when you do not know whats in the pond. I can see some serious reading comming. Starting over sounds pretty serious to me, and even worse for the fish! I will definetly have to research that option. As for the pond pro, thats a tall order. When I talked to the DNR for the state they said if it was not covered with algae blooms and you can see a quarter in the water,in your hand, at elbow depth, leave it alone. That was the expert from the state! Need I say more!

Gates; Thin fish says that you don't have enough forage to handle the existing predator base but that has probably been the case for several years. You probably don't have an emergency on your hands. Greg Grimes (pro) in Georgia would be a good guy to talk to. He posts here a lot and is extremely knowledgeable.

Gates; Thin fish says that you don't have enough forage to support the existing predator base but that has probably been the case for several years. You probably don't have an emergency on your hands. Greg Grimes (pro) in Georgia would be a good guy to talk to. He posts here a lot and is extremely knowledgeable.

gates feel free to call or email your concerns. Ihave a freind in Maryland that took fishery classes with me. He teaches college there and maybe able to help out.

Gates - Since catching large fish is not a priority for you and since the pond does not seem to have any major or imminent problems you can approach the management casually and in a step wise fashion. We should be able to recommend some tasks for you to do and then you can report back your results. Then we could go to the next step.

Firstly - Do you have a digital camera?

Do you have a dock (jetty)?

Have you ever measured the pond depth from a boat with rope and weight or just took the previous owners word about depth?

Secondly - I agree with you and I think the red&white fish are koi. They feed differently compared to the other fish in the pond. Koi fed by rooting and sieving the sediments for a variety of living and dead plants and animals (mostly animals). This is why they are big and appear to be doing fine; probably not much competition for food from the majority of the other fish. They are most probably reproducing and the colored offspring are getting consumed at an early age by predators. HOWEVER, some of their offspring that are drab colored are no doubt surviving and you probably have additional smaller koi in the pond. You have a very exceptional case if I am wrong. A couple things will suggest that I am correct. 1. Water clarity. Since I cannot visit the pond, You should be periodically checking or measuring this (monthly Apr-Oct). Tie a thin rope or cord to a white coffee cup. Mark the cord in one ft increments. Lower cup into water until it disppears, note the depth reading oncord. Numerous koi will keep your pond roiled and cloudy. Their feeding activiity will also keep rooted vegetation to a minimum due to rooting of sediments and cloudy water conditons.

Thirdly - Do your best to catch one of those rockfish. Take a close picture of it. I do not know what you mean by rockfish, so I cannot determine their niche in your pond.

Fourthly - You could easily have too many bass and too thin of bass in your pond for a normal sport fishery pond. BUT this fact may be what is keeping the koi and other nuisance fish in your pond from becoming over abundant and causing problems worse that what you have now.

Fifthly - First task fish-wise for you this summer is to start fishing and keep track of what you catch and its length and relative plumpness - emaciated, thin, average, plump. Fish with a variety of methods, live bait and artificial. Fish on or near the bottom with worms or crickets- bobber&no bobber. Occassionally use a few minnows for bait. Catch as many difertnt types of fish as possible. Report back.

Barley straw is probably keeping some of the algae growth suppressed. Koi rooting will also suppres some algae growth (physical & turbidity). Flow through from spring will also dilute nutrients and somewhat flush the pond thus helping reduce algae problems.

Dave, Thanks for the info.

Greg, I have e-mailed you.

Bill, Sounds like you got my job all layed out for me. Its a tough one, but someone has got to do it, especially the fishing part. I have some of the answers to your questions now, they are as follows:
1. I do have a digital camera, small pier, and I have measured the depth.
2. I see the same 6 Koi every year.
3. Rockfish are striped bass. The hybrids have broken stripes on their side.
4. I do not know that much about Bass.
5. I assume that fishing the surface and bottom we are looking for all types of fish.
6. Does the barley work?

I would like to say to all that have replied, thanks, and I am looking forward to completing the tasks and reporting back. It should be enjoyable.

Ron

Yep, the hook is set.

You had me at fishing ! :rolleyes:

Gates - The small pier should make taking the water clarity measurements easier, unless the pier only goes out to shallow water.

Camera will be helpful if you catch a fish that is an unknown.

Barley seems to work on some types of algae. I am pretty sure there some algae types that the barley biproducts have only marginal impacts upon. A lot still needs to be learned about the use of barley. As I understand it there are different types of barley and thus different strengths of the leachate biproducts.

Fishing top and bottom with different types of baits should provide a fairly good idea of what fish are in the pond. Knowing the types of fish present and their relative sizes and body condition will dictate the specific management methods. Fishing may not reveal all the types of fish present. You may not have caught an eel while fishing. Although eel are predatory.

Gates, everyone of us has a balanced pond. It's just that it isn't the balance that many people want. Some people like a balanced pond with green sunfish and bullheads with maybe a few gar mixed in. A balanced pond will occur unless there is something that knocks it out of balance