Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations small mouth pond

I have access to about 5 acres that are not farmable and am thinking of making a new pond. I have several friends that are out of work dirt movers that I can get to build the pond. Are there any back issues of pond boss that address building a small mouth pond? Time is of no issue as I have another pond that I am spending my time on right now. I was thinking of having it built and then adding my forage for a 18-24 months before adding small mouth. I am wondering if this undertaking is worth it. Would small mouth work in north carolina? I have many questions that I don't want to bore everybody with, that's why I was wondering about Pond Boss issues.
thanks
docg

Smallies work in Arizona; NC shouldn't be a problem.

Bill Cody just finished a 5 part series on SMB in PBMag. I would recommend the whole 2009 set of issues.

Smallies do very well in Tennessee; we're at about the same lattitude as you. In fact, the current world record smallie came from Tennessee. I would highly recommend them as "worth it", but they are quite a different kettle of fish from LMB, and their management will require some forethought if they are to reach their best potential in smaller bodies of water.

You'll learn a ton about SMB in the PB issues, but whether you ask questions before or after reading them, don't worry about boring anyone. Questions are what this forum is all about.

What kind of forage are you thinking of focusing upon?

docg also look at Bob's new book: Perfect Pond ... Want One?
I'm in NC & have SMB & RE in my pond.
You're smart in that you show the patience’s to stock forage first & wait for them to fill the pond before adding predators.
Every fish has a finite life span & if you can keep their mouth full they have the greatest chance of reaching their full potential in growth.
Start with FH's & crawfish for the first year at least.

I'm sort of busy right now, but can someone provide docg a few links to previous good forum discussions about smallies? Smallmouth will definately work for him in NC if he uses proper forage fish and good habitat.
Docg don't be afraid to ask questions after reading the suggested material and info in the links to the discussions.

Here are 4 good threads the first 2 from the archives.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103428#Post103428

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92626#Post92626

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=15103&Number=186285#Post186285

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160879&fpart=1

I absolutely love secondary ponds!!! Nothing is better and more fun than a fish 'experiment'

Will make you a deal doc. You keep us updated on the project and collectively we will answer all the questions you could possibly have about building and maintaining this smallmouth pond.

You got it Nate. If I can figure out the specifics of photo presentation on the site, you got it. I have a guy coming over this week to walk over the site.
docg

docg I second N8ly's offer. There is a lot of info in those 5 PB articles Theo mentioned. Also a lot here in those threads linked above and others which I can find for you as needed. One on Brettski's pond and of course Theo's SMB pond in the archives. Bill and I have done a lot of research on SMB in ponds and have a bunch of scientific data/papers. AFS has 2 symposium one just on SMB and another that is on black bass about half of which is on SMB. In addition there are hundreds of papers on SMB.

I think you will be happy with the results. We can find the info and advice for you to consider.

Instead of one larger second pond for smallies, while you have out of work pond builders on site, consider having them build two smaller ponds instead of one larger pond. In the additional pond of 0.5-1ac you could have some good fun growing hybrid striped bass with hybrid BG or another panfish in a third pond. Both feed and grow well on pellet food. HSB are harder fighting and faster growing than SMB.

Could I not put hsb, smb, res in the same pond? Set up texas feeders to push them? Getting the pond built may be the easy part. Finding a smb vendor in nc may prove more of an issue.
The area that I am looking at is a rocky old spring type area. May prove tough to make 2 smaller ponds.

You can have SMB , RES and HSB in the same pond. You will need another forage source. GShiners , craws , FH , or othe small fish will work.

Hey docg, I fly in to RDU almost monthly. It wouldn't be too far out of the way to swing by and take a look with you, if you are interested. I'll probably be headed that way in January, February for sure.

I would look strongly at stocking some lake chubsuckers into your pond. Especially if you are going to give it a bit of time to grow forage before you stock the predators. You can have them overnight shipped to you by Overton's, that is how I got mine. I think they would make an excellent forage fish for the type of pond you are looking at doing.

You can get smallmouth shipped in overnight as well!

Bob Lusk at my house..... I don't know if I could sleep..
Just teasing of course. I would be honored to have you see the property. Hopefully the snow will be gone by then. Just let me know when you wish to come and I will clear my schedule. If only N8LY could come then my life would be complete. Seriously, I would like any and all input because I would like this to be a pond boss experiment, and if we could all come to a consensus about stocking rates, forage growth before predators, structure, etc., then that's what I'll do. Consensus between experts proves difficult sometimes though

Getting Lusk at your place? Take the opportunity!

Now for n8ly:

"If only N8LY could come then my life would be complete."

Be careful as Dude really does get around!

I've read all the stuff about the smallies in the mag and it is VERY good and highly detailed but not too scientific for a southern boy to understand. Y'all need to remember that we're slow readers so, write slowly.

WOW! If you can get the Guru Bob to come see your place, you'd be way far ahead! I've never been able to afford to attend the conference but, I bet I could learn more in an hour with Bob at my pond than in a lifetime of trying to figure it out on my own.

Take him up on that offer! Maybe your smallie pond will become a new project article in the mag.

Al, guys from the South may talk and read slow but they think pretty fast.

Sunil
N8ly "dude gets around"... I heard he and Tiger have been hanging out at all the pond conferences. I hope his prenup is better than Tiger's. lol

I can tell you that lord willing I will be headed to the King Fisher Society some day to go bluegill fishing with Jim Morgan... Taking a slight detour to plop in the water and feed some Tar Heel smallmouth bass would be right up my alley en route to spearing a 3 lb bluegill, chasing a covey, and then kicking back and listening to some live jazz music!

You would be more than welcome and you can enjoy one of my granny's mean apple fritters. You'll have to give me some time to get to that point..Lord willing. Plus,I gotta get my islands out.

Granny's apple fritters?!?

Careful, you might just end up with JHAP at your pond.

What is the lethal temperature for smallmouth? I read on the net that 80 degrees is lethal?
That would preclude me from my smallmouth pond...which would really suck.
docg

SMB thrive as far south as north MS and Ala.

Tell us about your location. Mts. or coastal plain , size of water , pond temps in summer etc.