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Not to discourage anyone but here is the rest of the story (or at least part of it). This is a long study so only parts are included. Greg very good observation. There are of course pluses and minuses to many aspects to the points in this study but it does confirm , as is often noted here , " it all depends".
North American Journal of Fisheries Management 18:295–307, 1998
Suitability of the Lake Chubsucker as Prey for Largemouth Bass in Small Impoundments RONALD C. EBERTS, JR. Center for Aquatic Ecology, Illinois Natural History Survey VICTOR J. SANTUCCI, JR.* Max McGraw Wildlife Foundation DAVID H. WAHL Center for Aquatic Ecology, Illinois Natural History Survey
Abstract.—We evaluated the suitability of lake chubsuckers Erimyzon sucetta as prey for largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides in small impoundments by examining life history, susceptibility to predation, and effects on predator growth. Characteristics of lake chubsucker life history are favorable because the fish can produce moderate numbers of young for prey, can reach a size refuge from most predators and thereby maintain a viable population, and do not consume fish eggs or fry. In laboratory pools, largemouth bass consumed lake chubsuckers more often than they consumed bluegills Lepomis macrochirus. Largemouth bass growth was similar between experimental ponds containing either bluegills or lake chubsuckers, and although mortality was lower for age-0 and small largemouth bass in ponds with lake chubsuckers than ponds with bluegills, it was not lower for larger fish. In a lake manipulation experiment, largemouth bass growth was not changed by the introduction of lake chubsuckers. We recommend that lake chubsuckers not be stocked to supplement available prey in waters supporting bluegills or other abundant prey populations and that they never be stocked outside of their native range. However, lake chubsuckers may benefit largemouth bass in small impoundments in which bluegills are not present.
Under laboratory conditions, lake chubsuckers appeared more suitable as prey than bluegills. Largemouth bass struck at lake chubsuckers more often than at bluegills and consumed them far more often. A fusiform body and soft-rayed fins may have contributed to the higher vulnerability to predation for the lake chubsucker than for the deepbodied, spiny-rayed bluegill (Wahl and Stein 1988; Einfalt and Wahl 1997). Previous work has shown that largemouth bass (Lewis and Helms 1964) and other piscivores (esocids and walleye; Parsons 1971; Gillen et al. 1981; Knight et al. 1984) select soft-rayed prey over spiny-rayed prey. Based on optimal-foraging theory, we anticipated that largemouth bass might consume lake chubsuckers more than bluegills in field experiments, but this was not the case. Greater occurrence of bluegills in bass diets probably was due to their higher abundance in our experimental ponds and lakes. However, lake chubsuckers also exhibited antipredatory behaviors that may partially explain their low frequency in the diets. Like bluegills, lake chubsuckers spent most of their time in near-motionless aggregations associated with the lower sidewall and bottom of experimental pools. In ponds and lakes, we observed lake chubsuckers using submersed vegetation as cover when largemouth bass predators approached. Associating with vegetation or other structure (Savino and Stein 1989) and remaining motionless (Wahl and Stein 1988) are behaviors known to decrease the likelihood of attack by predators.
Although unavailable to age-0 fish, lake chubsuckers were vulnerable to predation by older largemouth bass. Based on our estimates of optimal prey size, lake chubsuckers 200 mm in length or larger would be effectively excluded from predation by most centrarchid predators. Electrofishing catch rates in Shady Lake confirmed high survival of adult lake chubsuckers in a lake with a high percentage of large predators; largemouth bass over 350 mm made up 17% of the sample each fall. Based on our estimates of lake chubsucker growth, they could be available as prey for largemouth bass for up to 4 years. This long period of vulnerability may benefit predators, but it may also compromise prey population stability by allowing elimination of lake chubsucker young before they recruit to non vulnerable sizes. Self sustaining populations of lake chubsuckers may be particularly difficult to maintain in impoundments with abundant predator populations (Carline et al. 1986) or where protective habitat and alternate prey are lacking (Carline et al. 1986; Wahl 1995).
Lake chubsuckers spawn around the time of largemouth bass (Kramer and Smith 1960), and their young grow rapidly during the first year. In our ponds, age-0 largemouth bass never gained enough of a size advantage to allow consumption of lake chubsucker young. In contrast, by initiating spawning later in the year and spawning repeatedly during the summer, bluegills produced a continuous supply of vulnerable-sized prey that were used by age-0 largemouth bass. In impoundments in which bluegills are not overly abundant, they may benefit age-0 largemouth bass more than lake chubsuckers would.
The intent of many prey fish introductions is to increase growth of piscivores and ultimately to increase their recruitment to the fishery. Our evaluation provided an initial assessment of the potential for lake chubsuckers to serve as a prey species in small impoundments. We found that stocking lake chubsuckers in a lake with an established centrarchid community produced little change in the diets and growth of largemouth bass and that production of lake chubsucker juveniles was low. From these results, it appears that lake chubsuckers should not be stocked in waters containing established largemouth bass and bluegill populations. In contrast, our life history assessment, prey selection experiments, and pond experiments suggested that lake chubsuckers may benefit largemouth bass at least as much as bluegill prey in new or renovated ponds in which bluegills are not desired. Because lake chubsucker young appear highly vulnerable to predators, stocking adults 1 year before largemouth bass may be warranted.We stress, however, that stocking should take place only within the native range of lake chubsuckers. Further, we recommend additional evaluations of the effects of lake chubsuckers on fish and other components of aquatic communities and long-term assessments of predator and prey population dynamics before proceeding with widespread use of lake chubsuckers as prey for largemouth bass.
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High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 05:40 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 05:42 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 05:44 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 05:45 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 05:46 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 05:49 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 06:06 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 06:08 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 06:10 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 06:11 AM
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Theo Gallus
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04/18/09 11:36 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 12:43 PM
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Bill Cody
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04/18/09 01:52 PM
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CJBS2003
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04/18/09 02:15 PM
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bobad
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04/18/09 04:07 PM
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Bill Cody
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04/19/09 01:31 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/19/09 01:36 AM
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adirondack pond
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04/19/09 01:03 PM
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CJBS2003
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04/19/09 02:35 PM
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CJBS2003
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04/19/09 02:43 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Greg Grimes
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04/19/09 02:44 PM
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CJBS2003
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04/19/09 02:54 PM
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ewest
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04/19/09 03:28 PM
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Greg Grimes
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04/19/09 03:42 PM
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Theo Gallus
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04/19/09 03:43 PM
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ewest
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04/19/09 09:51 PM
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esshup
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04/20/09 12:21 AM
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rexcramer
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04/20/09 01:24 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/20/09 02:12 AM
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DJT
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04/20/09 04:11 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/20/09 04:19 AM
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ewest
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04/20/09 02:14 PM
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Greg Grimes
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04/20/09 08:20 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Bill Cody
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04/22/09 12:23 AM
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Bill Cody
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04/20/09 01:33 AM
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CJBS2003
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04/20/09 02:06 AM
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bobad
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04/19/09 02:31 PM
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spc
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04/26/09 04:08 PM
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CJBS2003
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05/01/09 04:08 PM
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Chris Steelman
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06/03/09 03:31 AM
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CJBS2003
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06/03/09 05:08 PM
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jakeb
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06/03/09 09:09 PM
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Chris Steelman
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06/03/09 10:15 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/04/09 06:03 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Chris Steelman
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06/04/09 01:42 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/04/09 02:29 PM
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davatsa
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04/18/09 02:15 PM
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overtonfisheries
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04/18/09 03:34 PM
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overtonfisheries
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04/18/09 03:43 PM
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overtonfisheries
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04/18/09 03:57 PM
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Chris Steelman
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04/18/09 04:08 PM
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overtonfisheries
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04/18/09 07:58 PM
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jakeb
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04/18/09 10:08 PM
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esshup
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04/19/09 01:30 AM
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george1
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04/18/09 03:53 PM
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Chubby
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06/09/09 12:59 PM
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Dave Willis
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06/09/09 03:13 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/09/09 03:25 PM
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Chubby
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06/09/09 09:02 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/09/09 09:40 PM
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Chubby
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06/09/09 10:25 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/09/09 10:42 PM
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Chubby
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06/10/09 12:57 AM
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CJBS2003
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06/10/09 01:34 AM
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Dave Davidson1
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06/10/09 10:24 AM
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Chubby
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06/10/09 01:59 PM
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Chubby
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06/10/09 02:00 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/10/09 03:41 PM
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Chubby
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06/10/09 04:37 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/10/09 09:14 PM
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overtonfisheries
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06/11/09 06:04 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/11/09 06:28 PM
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overtonfisheries
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06/11/09 06:43 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/11/09 06:47 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Chubby
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06/13/09 08:41 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Chubby
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06/09/09 08:59 PM
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Fishkeeper1
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06/13/09 12:19 PM
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bobad
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06/13/09 02:57 PM
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CJBS2003
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06/14/09 03:41 AM
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CJBS2003
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06/26/09 02:13 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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adirondack pond
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06/26/09 03:06 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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06/26/09 03:13 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Dave Willis
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06/26/09 01:17 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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06/26/09 07:32 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Dave Willis
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06/26/09 09:59 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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06/27/09 05:07 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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07/01/09 05:46 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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deadwood
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11/23/11 06:03 PM
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CJBS2003
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11/23/11 09:18 PM
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esshup
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11/23/11 09:40 PM
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Cecil Baird1
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11/23/11 11:08 PM
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gallop
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07/04/13 02:54 PM
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Bill Cody
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07/04/13 03:08 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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gallop
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07/04/13 03:20 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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07/04/13 03:46 PM
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ClarkesvilleCris
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07/04/13 07:23 PM
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CJBS2003
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07/04/13 09:34 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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esshup
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07/04/13 11:40 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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07/04/13 11:52 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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gallop
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07/05/13 02:21 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Rentzlaw
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07/05/13 03:52 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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07/05/13 11:45 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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gallop
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07/05/13 12:51 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Bill Cody
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07/05/13 01:15 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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07/05/13 02:25 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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08/20/13 04:01 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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canyoncreek
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10/03/14 06:00 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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10/03/14 07:15 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Chris Steelman
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10/04/14 03:36 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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CJBS2003
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10/04/14 12:48 PM
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cwadeer
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10/08/14 02:02 AM
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CJBS2003
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10/08/14 05:34 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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canyoncreek
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09/21/16 06:57 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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anthropic
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09/21/16 10:36 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RAH
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09/21/16 10:40 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RER
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09/22/16 12:12 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Chris Steelman
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09/22/16 04:20 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RAH
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04/05/18 05:46 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RAH
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04/06/18 12:32 PM
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ewest
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04/08/18 02:03 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RAH
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04/08/18 02:09 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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Bill Cody
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04/08/18 09:37 PM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RAH
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04/08/18 11:05 PM
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canyoncreek
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09/16/18 02:09 AM
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Re: High Quality Bass Forage, the Lake Chubsucker
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RAH
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09/16/18 07:29 PM
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