Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose gizzard shad vs golden shiners

Greg my concern for James is with carrying capacity and GShad stockpiling and crowding out BG and others not with harm to LMB recruitment.

I do recall Lake Sovereign especially the small BG , crappie , and mixed lepomis. Does it also have TShad ?

No tshad. James not to make you a guinea pig but it will be fun to watch and see what happens. I predict you may well be the envy of all other bass fanatic PB memebrs with fat happy bass. It may be an issue at some point that requires radicial mgmt but this may not be for several more years. James keep us up to date. If ever you get it shocked I would like to see the data. I'll get you my free 2 cents if you wanted it.

CJBS,

We have our first experimental chubsucker pond stocked with broodfish right now!! This is the first mention of chubsuckers that I can recall on the forum. I agree that they are excellent bass forage, everywhere we find chubsuckers we also find super healthy bass.

We've found chubsuckers only in softer slightly acidic waters with significant amounts of aquatic vegetation like lily pads, bushy pondweed, and coontail, so they may not be for everyone.

If we are successful we will announce on the forum. Will know something this summer about spawning success. Not sure how to encourage good spawn and production on the farm, but picked a pond with a history of vegetation problems and letting it go unchecked.

Todd - I like the sound that you have chubsuckers on the farm. I am excited about your experiment. They spawned well and maintained good numbers in several Illinois ponds with weed beds. Bennett thought the chubsucker did well in a mud or sand bottom ponds. The main requierement Bennett thought was relatively clear water. Bennett considered the chubsucker was as close to an ideal forage fish as any species. If you get them to spawn I would like like to be first in line for some of the YOY. I have been looking for some lake chubsuckers for probably 10 years. Thank you for taking the effort to try them.

If you can get them to spawn you will probably sell out every year and you can just about name your price. In the pet shop trade they are pricey if you can even locate them. If you succeed you will be the only place in the US with them. IMO about 90% of the fish farms in the US don't even know what a chubsucker is!

Miracles happen!!! I know Bill is already jubilant as am I.

I definitely want on the list for YOY if you have a successful spawn... From my correspondence with a aquaculturalist who has experience in raising them, they struggled to get them to spawn much is smaller ponds. He said only lakes with soft, clear water, weedy, and an organic layer on the bottom seemed good candidates for the species. He said they are very common in east Texas but non existent in south Texas where his farm is currently...

Even thought there are no subspecies listed for lake chubsuckers, they do seem to have two or maybe three distinct populations. A northern population which seems to be struggling, a south eastern population, FL up to southern VA and then a south western population, the southern Mississippi drainages... I wonder if the southern populations would handle northern climates, much like coppernose BG cannot handle the northern winters. I guess time will only tell!

Thanks much for giving lake chubsuckers a try! If you can get them to breed well I am sure they will make some great money for you with a little advertisement!

This should help.
The Progressive Fish-Culturist
Volume 40, Issue 1 (January 1978) pp. 33–34

Possible Use of the Lake Chubsucker as a Baitfish

Jerome V. Shireman, Robert L. Stetler, and Douglas E. Colle

School of Forest Resources and Conservation

University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida 32611

ABSTRACT: Adult lake chubsuckers (Erirnyzon sucetta) were placed in a 0.3-ha vegetated pond where they

spawned. A population estimate yielded a mean biomass estimate of 514 kg/ha; the fish averaged 128 mm total

length. Females produced an average of 18,478 eggs. Food analysis indicated that fingerling chubsuckers consumed

primarily filamentous algae, cladocera, chironomid larvae, and copepods. Fingerling lake chubsuckers

seem ideally suited for use as bait minnows since they have round cylindrical bodies, soft fins, and golden color.

In addition they are hardy and can withstand the stress of handling.

At least 20 species of fish have been raised as baitfish in

the United States. Of these, the go!deen shiner

(Noternigonus crysoleucas), fathead minnow (Pirnephales

promelas), and the common goldfish (Carassius auratus)

have been cultured successfully in the southeastern United

States (Anon. 1970). These species have the following

characteristics in common: they are easily and inexpensively

raised, they have sufficiently high fecundity to establish

large fingerling populations, they spawn naturally in ponds,

and they are acceptable to fishermen. Additional features

such as hardiness, cylindrical body, and vigor are desirable

characteristics of baitfish. The golden shiner and fathead

minnow are soft-rayed species, which is also a desirable

trait.

The lake chubsucker (Erirnyzon sucetta) is distributed

through the eastern United States, ranging from eastern

Minnesota to New England and south to Florida and Texas

(Eddy 1957). It is found in a variety of habitats including

ponds, lakes, and low-gradient streams with mud and sand

bottoms (Bennett and Childers 1966). Because the lake

chubsucker exhibits many of the characteristics desirable in

baitfish, we undertook a study to obtain life history data

and to evaluate the potential of the species for commercial

culture.

Methods

Lake chubsuckers were collected from December 1975

through March 1976 for fecundity estimates. After capture,

fish were measured to the nearest millimeter (total length)

and weighed to the nearest 0.1 g. The ovaries were weighed

to the nearest 0.01 g and preserved in Gilson's solution,

which hardened the eggs and freed them from the ovarian

membranes. We washed the preserved eggs through a series

of USA Standard sieves (2,000, 850, 600, 250, and

125/am) to separate them into uniform size groups from

volumetric displacement estimates. Mean egg sizes were

determined for both preserved and fresh eggs by placing a

sample of eggs in a partitior•ed petri dish and measuring

them.

On 18 March 1976, 7 male and 11 female chubsuckers

(269 to 404 mm total length) were stocked in a 0.36-ha

vegetated pond. Eighteen brood stock channel catfish (Ictalurus

punctatus) were already in the pond. Fingerling

grass carp (Ctenopharyngodon idella) were stocked on

18 July 1976. Grass carp consumed all the vegetation in the

pond except for a small stand of cattail (Typha sp.). On

17 October 1976 the pond was sampled with electrofishing

gear to collect chubsuckers and to estimate the fingerling

population. Chapman's modification of the Peterson formula,

N = (m+ 1)i'C+ 1)/R+ 1, was used to estimate the

number of small chubsuckers (Ricker 1975). Confidence intervals

were established by using binomial tables (Steel and

Torrie 1960).

The upper one-third of the digestive tracts of 15 youngof-

the-year chubsuckers from the pond were examined for

food and the percentage occurrence of each food item was

determined.

Results

Fecundity

Eggs were separated into three size groups upon sieving.

Materials that passed through the 250 -/am sieve contained

ovarian tissue and small immature ova. These small ova

were not used in fecundity estimates because they would

not be expected to mature during the current spawning

season. Mature preserved eggs were separated into large

(700/am) and intermediate (400/am) size classes. Wagner

and Cooper (! 963) reported that mature eggs of creek chubsuckers

(Erirnyzon oblongus) varied in size, depending on

the degree of ripeness. Behmer (1965) found large, intermediate,

and small transparent eggs in the ovaries of

carpsuckers (Cariodes carpio). Although he at first as-

VOL. 40, NO. 1, JANUARY 1978 33

sumed that the intermediate-sized eggs represented an egg

stock for a second spawning, he later found that the

intermediate-sizeggs remained in the ripening ovaries until

spawning and were apparently released with the larger eggs

during spawning; he found neither intermediate nor large

eggs in spent ovaries. In our study we found that ovaries

contained only small transparent eggs after spawning. The

relation between intermediate and large egg sizes obtained

by Behmer was very similar to ours. For this reason we included

both large and intermediate sized eggs in the fecundity

estimates, on the assumption that both sizes of eggs

were viable. The 14 chubsuckers used in this estimate were

259 to 347 mm long. The mean fecundity estimate was

18,478 (SD • 5,477) eggs. The correlation between the

logarithm of fish length and total number of intermediate

and large eggs was not significant (P•0.05)(nonsignificance

may have resulted from the small sample size).

Population Estimate

Electrofishing for a population estimate was done from

17 October 1976 to 2 February 1977. A total of 1,262 chubsuckers

were captured; 1,022 were marked and released,

and 147 were later recaptured during the collecting period.

The population estimate for the pond was 8,730 young-ofthe-

year chubsuckers. Confidence intervals (P • 0.05) were

7,683 to 10.127 fish. THe total mean biomass estimate was

514 kg/ha (455 lb/acre). On 15 October 1976 the mean total

length of these fish was 117 mm (SD -- 29.3), and by 1 February

1977, when the study was terminated, the mean

length was 128 mm (SD -- 23.4).

Food Habits

Fifteen chubsuckers (83 to 152 mm long) were collected

from the pond and examined for food. All intestines with

food (14) contained detrital material and sand grains, indicating

bottom-feeding. Fish 83 to 103 mm long fed

primarily on filamentous algae (100% occurrence),

cladocerans (25% occurrence), and chironomid larvae

(25% occurrence). Copepods were of lesser importance

(13% occurrence). Larger fish, 127 to 152 mm long, fed

primarily on copepods (50% occurrence) and algae (25%

occurrence); cladocera, ostracods, and chironomid larvae

(13% occurrence) were eaten with equal frequency.

Discussion

Lake chubsuckers can be propagated easily and inexpensively,

and spawn in vegetated ponds without artificial

stimulation. The young fish do not require supplemental

food but feed on naturally occurring organisms that can be

increased by fertilization. In the laboratory, however,

young chubsuckers accept artificial feeds and might use

such foods in culture ponds.

Young-of-the-year chubsuckers are extremely hardy and,

unlike bait fishes in the cyprinid family, do not have

deciduous scales; consequently they are less susceptible to

injury.

Our fecundity estimates indicated that this species produced

adequte numbers of eggs to sustain production

ponds. Unfortunately, lake chubsuckers do not reproduce

during their first year and brood stock must therefore be

held to maturity or collected each year from wild populations;

however, it may be used for several seasons. We are

not certain of the age of the first spawning, but maturity is

probably reached in the third year of life.

Acknowledgment

This work was supported by special funds from the

Center of Environmental Programs of the Institute of Food

and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida.

References

Anonymous. 1970. Report to the fish farmers. U.S. Bur. Sport

Fish. Wildl. Resour. Publ. 83. 124 pp.

Behmer, D.J. 1965. Spawning periodicity of the river carpsucker,

Carpiodes carpio. Iowa Acad. Sci. 72:253-262.

Bennett, G.W., and W.F. Childers. 1966. The lake chubsucker as

a forage species. Prog. Fish-Cult. 28:89-92.

Carnes, W.C. 1958. Contributions to the biology of the eastern

creek chubsucker, Erimyzon oblongus (Mitchill). M.S. thesis,

North Carolina State University, Raleigh. 69 pp.

Eddy, S. 1957. How to know the freshwater fishes. Wm. C. Brown

Co., Dubuque, Iowa. 253 pp.

Ricker, W.E. 1975. Computation and interpretation of biological

statistics of fish populations. Dep. Environ. Can., Fish. Mar.

Serv. Bull. 191. 382 pp.

Steel, R.G.D., and J.H. Torrie. 1960. Principles and procedures

of statistics. McGraw-Hill Book Co., New York. 481 pp.

Wagner, C.C., and E.L. Cooper. 1963. Population density,

growth, and fecundity of the creek chubsucker, Erimyzon

oblongus. Copeia 1963(2):350-357.

Accepted 17 October 1977

34 THE PROGRESSIVE FISH-CULTURIST

Great information Eric, the fact that FA makes up a large part of their diet is encouraging...

I have also read they will spawn in the nests of bass. Some biologists feel their young resemble bass young so that they can blend in with the newly hatched bass.

I really hope someone is able to get these fish commercially available!

Link from Texas State University on Lake Chubsuckers...

From that link:

Habitat Associations

Macrohabitat: Occupies ponds, oxbows, sloughs, impoundments, and similar waters of little or no flow (Wall and Gilbert 1980). More common in lake and ponds as opposed to streams (Ross 2001).

Mesohabitat: Clear water, having bottoms of sand or silt mixed with organic debris; aquatic vegetation usually present (Wall and Gilbert 1980; Werner et al. 1978; Trautman 1981). Stream habitats are characterized by moderate to slow currents in relatively deep pools (Meffe and Sheldon 1988). E. sucetta was a new species collected from Longtown Creek (tributary of the South Canadian River), in Oklahoma, in a clear, vegetated pool with rocky substrate (Pigg and Gibbs 1995). Species can tolerate low oxygen thresholds in winterkill lakes; in Michigan, lake chubsucker had a toleration level of approximately 0.4-0.3 ppm (Cooper and Washburn 1949).

Biology

Spawning season: Based on laboratory studies, March to May (later stage larvae prefer temperatures of 28-34 degrees C; Negus et al. 1987).

Spawning habitat: Phytolithophils; nonobligatory plant spawner that deposit eggs on submerged items, have late hatching larvae with cement glands in free embryos, have larvae with moderately developed respiratory structures, and have larvae that are photophobic (Simon 1999; Balon 1981). Cooper (1935) indicated that eggs were scattered over aquatic vegetation including moss, filamentous algae, and grass stubble. Carr (1942) reported an association between lake chubsuckers and largemouth bass nests and in which lake chubsuckers laid their eggs in active largemouth bass nests and the developing eggs would be protected from predators by largemouth bass.

Reproductive strategy:

Fecundity: Eggs demersal and adhesive, averaging 2 mm in diameter; hatching occurs in 6-7 days at 23-30 degrees C and in 4-5 days at 20-22 degrees C (Fuiman 1979, 1982; Kay et al. 1994). Individuals of 259-347 mm TL produce an average of 18,478 mature eggs (Shireman et al. 1978). Fertilized eggs hatch in about 72 hours at 22-25 degrees C (Hiltabran 1967).

Age at maturation: Cooper (1935) found that both sexes reach maturity in their third summer of life.

I take full responsibility for hijacking this thread, and hereby request a new thread for the topic of lake chubsuckers.

I have some ponds ready and available for production season and with the unexpected encouragement, I will devote serious investment. We'll start a list, starting with Bill Cody.