Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Update on perch production pond

Well the yellow perch that I have measured as of today June 23 are 2 to 2 1/2 inches. I thought I saw larger ones in the water but can't be sure. These hatched from egg strands I placed into the pond.

Here's a pic of one that that got partially sucked into the vanes of the sump pump I was using and died. I was draining down the pond to kill macrophytes along the edges and to later add some freshwater. He or she is quite plump so I'm thinking they are doing quite well. As I pumped water from the adjacent pond back into this pond, I observed an estimated 2000 perch swiming against the current. So I've got at least 2000 in the pond which shoud be plenty for my needs. Just thought I'd keep those interested updated.

Isn't that steroid-like growth?

They grow fast or die as yoy. Plus they have been eating Cecil's cottonseed meal.

Neat. Great update.

Just how big do you expect them be by the time the water starts to cool - like early October? And, what kind of mortality do you expect as they grow. Without predators, do you think they will naturally thin their population through some kind of attrition? If not, what do you do with over a thousand of these things?

I wonder if I could grow a few dozen in my 15 x 25 x 6-foot deep sediment pond I dug above my main pond. It seems to stay at full pool at least 9 months out of the year, when it ranges from ice to about 70 degrees. My local dealer sells something called "Seminole" perch, which sure look like just plain old yellow perch. They claim they will do well in our climate.

Ken,

Not sure about mortality but I think the larger they get the less mortality there is. As far as what I will do with them I will probably put them in cages with the top 1 or 5 percent in a special cage. Those fish will be where I select my future broodstock.

I do have some folks that want some that I could easily sell to but my main priority is my niche markets and selectively breeding big perch like Dr. Condello does with his bluegills.

Perch are quite hardy and if those "Seminole" perch are feed trained I think you would do fine in the settling pond. If not they can be feed trained in cages. Bill Cody does it all the time with wild perch using softened feed.

Here is what Bill Cody (Dr. Perca) said about this in an email:

Cecil,
I would say the growth is very good for the YOY perch you have now. I calculate they are close to 60 days old - Hatch Apr 22, 30 days at May 22, and 60 days at June 22 at a length of 2.5" or 63.5 mm for about growth of close to 1mm per day. Extrapolating growth of 1mm/day out to the end of growing season of end of October for another 120 days this calculates to around 183mm or 7.0". Keep up the good work and you may get at least a few nice sized perch that are your fastest growers by November.

Bill

Fast growth, especially in such a cool year.

Dave,

Here we went from colder than normal to hotter than normal with what seemed to be flick of the switch. Now we are pretty much normal with highs in the 70's and lows in the 50's.

Cecil,

YP in our pond fending for themselves are mostly 3-4" by fall. That is those that survive predation. Is that about what you would expect in your locale without supplemental feeding?

Well, let's change that to fast growth compared to SD then, Cecil!

Sounds about right to me Dwight.

Dave,

What kind of temps have you been getting up there for highs and lows?

Cecil, How about every month till November come back to this post and inform us how much the perch have grown.

Okey-dokey.

Cecil obviously these fish are on a feed program, is it some proprietary thing you can't divulge or could a redneck like me grow perch out like that in my own pond using the same methods?? I guess that is to say, "What are you feeding those danged fish to make them grow so fast?"

Joe,

No proprietary informaton here. I post everything -- even my stupid mistakes!

Here are two thread links that should tell you much of what you want to know:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=119911#Post119911

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=117760#Post117760

Hey if this redneck can do it anybody can do it. As far as the feed I am using Aquamax in various sizes as they become larger. I started out with the 00 with some Krill powder mixed in (Krill powder may not have been necessary). Then went to 01 mixed with the 00 and now just the 01. Next is the 02 mixed with some 01 and so on. You mix it at first with the larger size so they can more easily adapt to the larger size.

The original source of these fish have been domesticated for up to 30 generations (orginally from lake Erie) with two other strains mixed in (history of those unknow). So that may help with growth and feed acceptability. However Bill Cody has had good success feed training in a cage even wild perch.

If you have any questions after reading the threads please feel free to ask.

Thanks Cecil, I was just curious about the brand and food sizes, you answered my questions in one shot. Thanks again.

I'm excited! I notice they are picking things off the surface now under the light. Saw one grab a bug that was much to large for her to eat but she pulled it under over and over again.

Earlier although they are growing well I was not 100 percent sure they were feeding on the feed. They can subsist on zooplankton for a while.

After I graduate up to the next size feed (5D03), the size after that is floating. By then they won't have a choice on coming up for the feed.

O.K. here it is about a month since I last updated on the size of the perch in my perch production pond that I planted eggs into in May. (Bill Cody suggested I update sizes every month) Here's is one I scooped up under the light just a few minutes ago.



3 3/4 inches and a real pig on July 27 vs. one I measured at 2 1/2 about a month ago here:



Here is one an inch smaller I got in the same scoop under the light. Perhaps a male or just an inferior fish? I will be culling out the top 1 % for my future broodstock just as Bruce Condello does with his bluegill.



As usual Dr. Perca (Bill Cody) is right on the money with a prediction of an inch growth a month give or take.

Seechi dish clarity is dropping again. 11 inches today due to the algae bloom. I couldn't even see these fish under a few inches of pond water when I brought them in to take pictures! I'm ordering a Kasco surface aerator first thing in the morning! I hope I get it and running in time. Will run it at night. I don't want to lose these fish!

Well I drained the perch production pond today and salvaged out the larger perch in the pond. These fish hatched from eggs I planted in April of this year. Most common fish were only 2 1/2 inches long and I can only surmise they never took to the pellets? However top end was about 6 1/4 inches and I'm pretty sure there was an 8 incher in the bunch. Unfortunately the fish were getting stressed (I even lost a few) so I was more concerned with getting them to their new home ASAP.

I have about 150 6 to 6 1/4 inch perch in a floating cage now.

Cost wise I lost money with the feed and utilities, however I do have larger fish than I would have purchased, and what fish I kept will be my future broodstock for genetic selection. Maybe I can do the same thing with yellow perch that Bruce is doing with his bluegill?

Here is pic of the top end yellow perch and also a pic showing the size range including the low end sizes.

What I learned and what changes I will make next time

1.) Put less egg strands into the pond for lower costs and better water quality.

2.) A little less fertilization and alfalfa meal vs. cottonseed meal.

3.) Pier, light, and belt feeder on both ends of the pond vs. just one end.

4.) Will start feed training with light earlier.

5.) Once the fish are on feed throughout the pond at a small size, I may seine them out and intensively feed them in tanks as my producer does. (I have the tanks to do so and he says if you want them to become feed eating machines this is the way to do it) Then put them back into the pond once they are really aggressive on the artificial feed, and crowd them to one end of the pond with a seine for a period of time.

6.) Seine the pond vs. draining down and scooping up the fish as I've done in the past. This time the pond was really mucky and the fish were stressed from the stirred up muck, lowering D.O. and possibly raising hydrogen sulfide levels. I did lose some fish and they started piping on the surface when I stirred up the muck by walking in the water.

Rather amazing size range.

Cecil I am sure thast you are sure those fish come from the same egg strand, but WOW, the size range is indeed amazing. It is safe to say those smaller fish will always be lagging behind the larger ones inthe group, did you keep them or ?

From what I read and what Dr. Perca (Bill Cody) and Bruce Condello have told me, larger fish have an advantage from the get go and the smaller fish will never reach the potential of the larger fish. I was also told this by a researcher Laura Tiu of the Piketon Research center in Ohio. There could be several reasons why these smaller fish are so small. I'm no expert but I can think of three possibilities:

1.) They never trained on the pellets or not well. Some fish never do. Additionally there was a light and feeder on only one end of the pond for feed training so it's possible some fish never showed up to the light.

2.) They were a different egg strand (what you are referring to) and a later hatch and were at a disadvantage and never caught up. And the larger fish may have even cannibalized on the smaller fish which gave them an advantage too. My orginal producer puts in egg strands that were laid the same day vs. different days to prevent this.

3.) They are genetically inferior and just don't have the genes for fast growth. My original producers refers to the largest fish as "shooters." BTW He says it's more important to use the largest males vs. largest females in a selective breeding program for fast growth. I found that interesting.

My hunch is the first reason is the most likely or a combination of the first and second as there were so many smaller fish.

I did not keep the smaller fish.

Thanks for posting that Cecil.

Cecil, are you purposefully selecting both males and females, or just keeping the biggest YP (which I would guess would tend to favor females)?