Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Silly Idea? (not my first one)

I was wondering if it's possible to use a submersible pump to move some water around in my pond? Since mine isn't very deep, (measured it at 7ft deepest part) I was thinking of piping some PVC so it's a foot above water level. As long as it can generate enough head pressure, it should help some? Yes? no?

Can't answer the pump question (lets go Forum engineers). I can tell you that all aeration is based on the concept of moving water around so that more of the water volume reaches the air-water interface so it can pick up O2 . So your question/idea is not silly.

It should help. I'm considering the same thing. Since I don't have electrictiy at my pond, I was considering a 100W solar panel and an old trolling motor to circulate the water. I guess anything is better than nothing.

That's a good idea too. I've got the old Ted Williams trolling motor in the garage.

I can get power down to the pond luckily. I just have to get my butt out there and do it. I'd like to put a little floating deck out there so I can use that as an excuse to spend the $ on the wire.

"Honey if you want a deck you have to have a light!!"

Sullpond, I like the idea for a DIY project, and yes it should help aerate. However, (and I hate to sound like a broken record) water (8.34 lbs/gal)is a lot heavier than air. It is much more energy efficient and therefore less expensive to move water by way of pumping air. It is also a lot less expensive to run PVC air conduit from where your electricity currently is rather than running copper wire.

P.S. If your looking for an excuse to spend some money, give me a call. You can give it to my wife to go shopping with so that she'll let me go fishing this weekend. Talk about money well spent.

Pumping water around will indeed help aerate the pond, especially with well thought out routing. I could see it being used for horizontal aeration, a spray, or both.

Clogging with plant matter might be a big problem with a submersible pump. If it is located near a dirt bottom, wear from suspended clay would probably cause accelerated wear.

What is the intended original use of the pump you have? That might clue in how susceptible it would be to the above (or other) complications.

That's a good point WW, PVC is a lot cheaper than copper, and air is easier to move. I wonder If my wife will let me hook up to the exhaust of her milking machine? That puppy puts out some air.

I'd like to contribute to your worthy cause, but my money is already spoken for. The wife or the college student are pretty good at the old dollar disappearing act.

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to make her mad.

Air is easy to move in air. But once under water, you still have the weight of the water to deal with. You can't avoid it.

Stop! my heads hurting. Good point though
I've decided to run the power since I want a light there anyway.
Bobad, I saw you mention your floating deck in another thread. How many barrels did you need for the size dock you built?

Hey Theo,

It's an old submersible sump pump. I thought I'd find some way of putting it in a five gallon bucket and add medium size gravel to protect it somewhat. I'll have to experiment with what will work.

Maybe you can play around with it in a 55 gallon drum or bathtub (outside) first.

I just realized maybe everyone doesn't have bathtubs setting around outside for experiments

I've got two empty stock tanks, so I'll probably use one of those. We've used bathtubs before no problem with that whatsoever.
I'll have to make it a covert operation though. If I turn my back it'll get filled with goldfish or Koi.

Two test tonight. First one with a short 3ft piece of 1/2 PVC .
Then a test with a 7 foot piece of 3/4 PVC.

At 7ft I get about a foot above the pipe, and if I put an ell on it, I get a 3 foot stream before it goes crazy and falls over.
I think this might work if I can make sure it stays unclogged.

Yes Bobad, there is always the weight of water. However an air diffusion style aerator/mixer actually moves a lot more water with a lot less energy. For instance, one style of our diffusers will pump about 12 MGD with 4.5 CFM. The 1/3 HP Thomas Wobble compressors can deliver this amount even at 15 PSI. Now, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think that there are any 1/3 HP water pumps that can come anywhere close to pumping 12 MGD. This becomes important for us because when our aerators are used in an agricultural/industrial application (especially waste water) we can save our customers a lot of money (up to 50% of capital costs)by qualifying the customer for energy credits from our local energy company (PG&E) simply based on energy savings. The largest rebates seem to come from when a customer switches from a system that pumps or moves water (i.e. paddle wheels & aspirators) to an air diffusion style aerator in which the bubbles do most the work or to a solar mixer. Sorry to throw more into the mix sullpond but I have a bit of a passion for energy conservation. I'll be awaiting the hippie jokes.

WW,
I understand, I hate the thought of consuming any extra power. If I had it my way, I'd run the entire farm from solar or wind, or gophers on a wheel. One day that will happen,(maybe not gophers) but at the moment I'm stuck with the time and funds available. Sooo I'm trying to utilize what I have on hand, and make-do.
I appreciate all of the info, even if I don't use it at the moment. It's alway available for future reference.
Peace Man

It is an excellent demonstration of what could be used by many as emergency aeration.

I totally agree with Waterwizard. If you have electricity at the pond, you will move many times more water with air than with water(and cheaper). Emergency aeration, to aerate the surface when fish are piping may be done by agitating water.

Been running my contraption since July, and no longer have an anoxic situation on the bottom. Secchi readings are now 16" up from 6".
While probably not the most efficient, or expedient, I believe it did succeed in turning the pond over. Of course in the absence of data showing how it would have turned out without the pump, I can't say definitively.

The pond is better and that's a good thing

Sullpond, glad to see it worked for you, I agree when the money isn't there you make due with what you have.
Last summer I did the same thing, I put a submersible pump I had on a small platform to keep it off the bottom, and attached a pipe to it. I had it run only at night to help cool, and aerate.
This year I have a small Linear compressor aerating which uses alot less power, but again use what you got when funds are low.
good luck.

I'm a newbie--what is secci rating and how is it measured? My pond has not been evaluated and I'd like to figure out if my aeration is doing anything.

Secchi depth is taking with a disk with white and black on alternating quarters. The disk is lowered in to the water until you can't see it. This tells you how far sunlight penetrates into the water.

See the Archive Thread on Secchi Disks for a picture and a link to a great Cary Martin post on them.

I just came across a rather clever and comical new style of secchi disk. It's called the "sneaker index" See below.

http://www.ecolve.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434

The Marine Science teachers here use Mr Fowler's sneaker index. Kids like it a lot more too.

I like it.

I like it too. That's a prime example of why I like this forum.

7 ft. is only 3 psi; most any small air pump will deliver at least 1 cfm at that depth. I have a gast I got at a surplus store for $55 bucks. It has no problem supplying my homemade co-active diffusers(sorry, Vertex) to 12 ft. It is 55 watts; much more efficient than moving water.

If I didnt have it, I would look into an air brush compressor, which is oilless, rated for continuous duty, and not expensive. This is if you have no power at the pond.
I also have a piston gast, that kicks butt, but I have it off duty to overhaul it.

Sorry, folks, the last post makes no sense. I missed reading the whole last page of posts. See how stupid I look when I try to stay on topic?

As for a secchi disk, my white coffee cup with carrollers with black hair and colorfus attire, works for me.

I love Old Bay seasoning. I was stationed in northern Md. in the navy in the 70s. Seafood coming from the bay ws owesome., Clams, shrimp, fish, oysters.

THOMAS 2619 compressor vacuum pump 3.5 cfm 115 vac RBLT

Does anyone have an opinion on this model pump for aerating a .35 acre pond, 150 ft across by 18 ft deep. With qty 5 soaker hose lines at 4 ft each. Home made project for sure.

This is an Ebay item and from all my reading, appears to fit the bill.
Thanks, Ken

I would hold off on buying that system until you hear from the experts Ken. I'm certainly not one of the experts but from what I've read here I do know that it takes about one half of one PSI (or .5) psi per foot of water depth to push air to the bottom. So at 18 feet deep the compressor would need to have enough air flow at 9 PSI to run a bottom diffuser. Also from my reading my understanding is that soaker hoses work ok in shallower water but are not as good in deeper water. A nice bottom diffuser would probably work better in the deep part of your pond.

What is the basic shape of your pond?

Hang on and I'm sure one of the experts will give you good info (as opposed to my ignorant speculation).

Hi Ken, although we use various different Thomas compressors for different applications, I have never used this one. However, this style is exactly the same as what we usually use. What I can tell you is that you should check the pump curve and find out what CFM you are getting at 9 PSI plus whatever the pressure requirement is to open the slits in the tubing. I would suggest shooting for at least 2 CFM @ 10 PSI. Thomas pump curves are notoriously difficult to find without calling a distributor for a spec sheet so good luck. $75 is a great deal if it does what you want it to, which I would suspect it would. For the price I say give it a try.

Be prepared to rebuild this pump every 12-18 months depending on sight conditions and filter replacement frequency. A rebuild kit will probably run about $100-$125 and is simple enough that a kid could do it in half an hour. It takes me about 3 days.

Finally, these compressors come from the factory with a ridiculously undersized and fragile filter assembly. So, if you want to upgrade it I would recommend a Solberg filter model #HFA-S-10050

Wow, $100 to $125 per year. That makes a cheap pump sound not so cheap anymore.

Yeah, especially when you consider the rebuild kit comes with about 5 dollars in materials. They're great compressors for this application though.

Thanks guys for the feedback. So, I got the pump in (3.5 cfm @40psi)plus my 5 lengths of soaker hose at 4' each. 150' of 5/8" garden hose and about 40$ worth of fittings and PVC, some glue...etc. Put all together and tried it out in the pool. Needed about 25lbs of rock to weigh it down. Wow, gotta say it worked very well. Good amount of small bubbles and allot of water movement. Since I have no restriction (regulator) or flow control in the line, I assume I am putting the whole 3.5 CFM at 40 PSI to work. I can't complain right now. I put legs on the diffuser to keep it 2.5ft above the bottom and will start the process of putting it together in the pond sometime next month. All in all, very satisifed. $200, not bad. I would have liked to purchase a new one from one of the local vendors, but presently out of a job at 55 years old, after 30 yrs with the same company. Not complaining, saw it coming, good time for a little time off before hitting the old work world again for another 10 yrs. Thanks again for the feedback.