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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
My selected pond site (1 acre) includes some intermittant stream bed. So, to be legal, I'll need a Corps of Engineers regional permit, as well as a State EPD permit. The 300 LF of affected stream bed will most likely have to be mitigated. (I haven't been officially told any of this yet) The one pond builder I've managed to find got real shy when he heard about the stream bed. How many of you guys have had to go this route, and what kind of money are we talking about?
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,011
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,011 |
Soon as I saw Skipsters location, I immediately thought of Jersey. Rockytopper was right....not a pleasant experience. Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
Guess it's time to bring out my motto: "No Guts, No Glory!"
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,084 Likes: 282
Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,084 Likes: 282 |
I believe Jersey would say that persistence is the key.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074 |
This can be a slow process that will be easier with help from someone that has been down the road. Persistence and patience is the key.
OTTO
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 469
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 469 |
Dumb luck was as important as persistence. I had a great congressman walk through the system with me. The ACoE will give you two choices. Bribe, I mean MITIGATE, translation, give them a few tens or hundred thousand dollars, or don't build. The NRCS is useless.
Do a Google search for "Riparian Rights".
Hey Moe, I'm trying to think but nuthin's happening!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,086
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,086 |
I subscribe Some days you get the dog,and some days he gets you.Every dog has his day,and sometimes he has two!
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074 |
I don't I would have told them that.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 469
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 469 |
IIRC, there was someone who posted here a year or two back that had the Federalis hounding him 8 or 10 years after he built his pond. Does anyone remember the details? I think he was in Ohio?
Hey Moe, I'm trying to think but nuthin's happening!
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
Just as an aside, while doing some research yesterday, this thread came up on a google search 3 different times. Kinda makes you feel like you live in a glass house.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 285
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 285 |
I spent two years fighting the state DEQ, township, and county getting the right permits for my hole. Still not done yet as I dont have all the grass planted around the pond so I can get my final approval and be done with them.
You will probably want to shoot yourself 3-4 times through the process, but in 10 years when you are enjoying your pond it will be worth it. It makes you understand why government workers go "postal"
Last edited by Theo Gallus; 05/12/08 08:22 AM. Reason: Disclaimer: Pond Boss does not not endorse the idea of "going postal." ;)
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,011
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,011 |
Rex,
In the course of dealing with all the agencies you listed, did you have to fork over any $$$$$ for the permits. What would happen if you did not plant grass around the pond?? Would you be fined or forced to drain the pond?? Just curious. Never had to deal with this for my permit from the state.
Russ
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
Holy Jeeze! It seems the more I learn the more I find out I don't know. I keep hearing Music from Rod sterling's "The Twilight Zone" mixed with the Beatles "Long and Winding Road". I ask consultants: "How much will it cost?" They say: "How much you got?" I just hope it doesn't take me 10 years to enjoy my pond.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 285
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 285 |
Rex,
In the course of dealing with all the agencies you listed, did you have to fork over any $$$$$ for the permits. What would happen if you did not plant grass around the pond?? Would you be fined or forced to drain the pond?? Just curious. Never had to deal with this for my permit from the state.
Russ I paid $100 to the state DEQ so they could tell me where to put my pond I paid $160 to the county so they could make me plant grass on the pond banks (cant have soil erosion) I paid $500 to the township so they can make sure the pond is not too steep and who knows what else. They also would not let me sell any of my sand. I do get part of the $500 back, depending on how many inspections the township has to make. The reason I had to get so many permits is because my pond is in a 100 year floodplain, otherwise I could have skipped the DEQ
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 469
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 469 |
They made me get a complete survey and submit a plan. Cost almost $6000. They never looked at it. Then there was a $700 environmental impact fee. I'm still not sure who's environment I impacted, other than my own.
Hey Moe, I'm trying to think but nuthin's happening!
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074 |
The story use to be it did not cost much money until you move some dirt. That has changed at least in some places, do not give up.
OTTO
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
I'm debating weather to "go solo" with the permit application. I've had guys tell me they can help with the permit, for like 5 grand! I can't throw money away like that. I know what I want, I can do the drawings, I just need someone in the know looking over my shoulder. (who doesn't need to retire in the next 5 minutes) If any of you guys know someone in my area, (Savannah District, COE)I'd appreciate a recommendation.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 30
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 30 |
Chat with your Congressman Jack Kingston. My late father-in-law was his aid. The guy would be appalled at the hassle you have to go through. If he cannot directly help you, he will try to find someone who can.
We lived in northeast GA for ten years and just moved up to northern VA about two years ago. In that part of GA, no permits were needed for ponds. When we moved up here, I expected a huge hassle in the preliminary stages of planning for a pond. I checked very thoroughly, and was pleasantly surprised to find nothing. I then chatted with the county's enviro. engineer and told him everything I had found. I almost fell over when he said there were indeed no restrictions, no permits for what I was proposing. I almost felt like I was living in a free country again.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: May 2008
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What county do you live in? Chat with your Congressman Jack Kingston. My late father-in-law was his aid. The guy would be appalled at the hassle you have to go through. If he cannot directly help you, he will try to find someone who can.
We lived in northeast GA for ten years and just moved up to northern VA about two years ago. In that part of GA, no permits were needed for ponds. When we moved up here, I expected a huge hassle in the preliminary stages of planning for a pond. I checked very thoroughly, and was pleasantly surprised to find nothing. I then chatted with the county's enviro. engineer and told him everything I had found. I almost fell over when he said there were indeed no restrictions, no permits for what I was proposing. I almost felt like I was living in a free country again.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 30
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 30 |
Frederick County. I was pretty stunned at his response, as this is the oldest county in VA west of the Blue Ridge (G. Washington had his survey office in Winchester). Older often means more bureaucracy.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
No real progress to report yet other than an evolving perspective. By that I mean I have learned a lot in the last month. This forum is a great warehouse of knowledge. I have totally become a junkie. That said, I want to apologize for the comments I made about consultants. I know some of the major players here do this for a living and I'm sure they provide a valuable service. I've met a pond contractor whose sister is a NRCS agent. Hope to get the ball rolling soon.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
After we clean up this brush pile, the pond will go in behind it.
Last edited by skipster; 05/26/08 01:54 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074 |
Skipster You are on the right path with a pond builder that has connection.
The picture looks great, in my country the next time you would see the brush pile it would be on fire. Are you burning or chipping.
OTTO
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14
Lunker
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OP
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 14 |
The brush pile is much larger now that we're cleaning up. I'd say it's about 130 feet long, 20 wide and 10 high. (so far) We should finish Friday. I'll post a pic before we (the forestry folks) burn it. Gonna be one heck of a blaze!
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