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Joined: Feb 2013
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OP
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Hello PB forum! I am a long time reader, first time poster.
Brief history.......I am blessed to be part owner and manager of a 12 acre pond in central AL. We dammed it up in Dec. 2002, added bream and fatheads in 2/03, LMB fingerlings in 6/03 and began serious fishing in 6/04. Stocked 1/3 Florida LMB , 2/3 F-1 tiger LMB. Only one goal for this pond, Trophy LMB!
We have fertilized every year and added lime twice since the initial liming. We basically remove all bass under 15 inches. I add 15-25 x-mas trees a year for structure. I fish at least once weekly and pull out about 20-25 lbs per acre per year. In 4/08, added threadfin shad. The pond is about 20 feet deep and the shad thrived, surviving a couple of very cold winters.
Caught my first 5 pounder in 8/05. Since then I have caught 48 LMB between 5 and 8 pounds. Caught the last 8 two weeks ago. My sons and other friends have caught numerous 5+ during past five years.
So, here is where I am today. I want to take it up a notch or two. I have been thinking for the last couple of years of adding larger forage to beef up the bigger bass. I have been advised that golden shiners would not do well in my pond (no grass or much cover in the shallows).
I've avoided gizzard shad after much reading ( the majority of which is on these boards). But, I am having second thoughts. I revisited the possibility of stocking gizzard this year, and now, I think I'm going to do it!
I would appreciate any comments, advice, wisdom or experience any of you might have about the stocking of GS.
Thanks.
Last edited by Trader; 05/03/15 06:43 PM.
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Joined: May 2012
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OP
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Nope, never had a feeder.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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With those advanced sizes in bass, you might be ok. How's the bluegill population? How cold do your winters get? There was a Pond Boss article, I think a couple years ago, about seasonally stocking rainbow trout to feed largemouth. Not sure if that's an option that far south though.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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I think the BG population is ok. Last shocked a year ago, no bream over 9", most were 5-6". Sepond did it, and mentioned a lack of 2-4 incher's. Last two winter's were mild. The one before that had a week below freezing. Three quarters of the pond iced over, lost some shad, but have never had to restock.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Have you thought about adding a couple of feeders to feed the BG? I may be wrong (don't have any experience with Southern Ponds) but personally I'd rather try that first before adding Gizzards. You'd be feeding the LMB indirectly by feeding the BG.
Have you done any WR studies on the LMB of the different age classes?
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Joined: Feb 2013
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OP
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The pond property is secluded and no one monitors it during the week. I live 30 minutes away and usually only get out on weekends. I've had concerns that feeders might get stolen. The Wr of my bass are good I think. I weigh and measure all 2lbs and up. Most run between .9 and 1.10 in Wr.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Joined: Nov 2011
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How many small bass do you catch? We own a pond that is similar to yours but after a while the large bass tend to eat nearly all the size you are taking out. I usually catch 45-50 bass over 5 lbs. per year but only got 18 last year. Last year we croppie fished mostly but want to get back to bass this year. Do you have catfish in your pond? They are a problem in mine but are easy to catch.
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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If you have any docks or platforms near shore, they can be bolted down to the platform. But, if somebody wants to steal something there's almost no way to stop them. They could also be put out on floating platforms so you need a boat to reach them.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Esshup, does the fat cat feeder(one that has pontoons on it) work O.K. That would be a good one to use at a unguarded location.
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Joined: Sep 2012
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What about a slot size for culling vs sub 15" You might have more small lmb for the big girls to eat and less pressure on the forage already present.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Kenc:
I've never seen one work. Bob and Nate have tho.
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Some professionals at growing trophy bass like Lusk, Grimes, Shawn Banks, or Jeff Slipke should have input on this before you add gshad. IMO you should focus on maintaining your current fishery that has the large bass that it already has and not try to take it up a notch. You could be getting spoiled with the quality of your current quality fishery.
The number of larger bass could increase slightly if the forage level that achieved the currrent fishery is maintained. The pond could be at near mature capacity of large bass and on the verge of decline that the 12 acres can support. From your description the fishery of large bass is on the fence and in danger of declining since the bluegills in the 2"-4" range are scarce. Before adding gizzards I would 1. maintain or enhance the threadfins with good fertility to maintain or improve zooplankton, 2. focus on enhancing the bluegill population to increase numbers as Sepond suggested of the 2"-4" bluegills. A few platform feeders would improve the bluegills. G.shad in the improper conditions can create sediment turbidity, negatively impact plankton, hinder the threadfins and have major impacts the overall ecosystem. Once you have out of control g.shad you have a real headache that is complicated and expensive to fix. IMO, I repeat, you need a professional opinion with good experience with waters similar to yours.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/16/13 09:44 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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OP
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Kenc, I pull 250-350 out per year personally. The professionals I talked with early on told me my problem would be harvesting. Said I really could'nt harvest enough. I don't have a lot of fishing pressure, so I pull as many out as I can. No catfish or crappie in the pond. Where are your ponds located?
Robert, I've often wondered if by harvesting 12" and under, I was depleting my large bass forage.
Last edited by Trader; 02/16/13 09:59 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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As long as you are open and willing to deal with 'potential' problems down the road with gizzards and majority of your bass are over 16", go for it. Your original stock is already 9 years old so you're banking that subsequent cohorts will take the ball and run. If you have a shortage of bluegill recruitment as SE found, then you probably aren't taking enough bass annually (do you weigh everything?) and feeding as suggested will help your bluegill. If you're consistently pulling 25lbs/ac/year via hook and line, that's phenomenal! Bump your harvest up to 40lbs/ac/year. Look closely too at your habitat layout- create many ambush sites in varying depths. Make it easy to eat.
The combination of habitat (efficient feeding), ample prey of the right size, and genetics are your players. Will they respond? Maybe. No one can predict how your bass will respond. If they don't respond your options are to start over or try to influence the genetic variable by marking and stocking new bass at low rates after further harvesting your bass population as low as you can stand to.
Just my thoughts based on what we are experiencing.
www.qualitylakes.com"If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves." - Thomas Jefferson 1787
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OP
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Bill, I do wonder if I am too spoiled. I love knowing every time I fish I have a chance of catching a big bass. I would love to get the pond producing consistently double digit LMB. Don't know if that's possible with a 12 acre pond. I certainly don't want to screw things up. The guy I talked with at sepond seemed to agree that GSD were my best option for adding larger forage. We also talked about GSH and seasonal trout.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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My ponds are at Aylett,Va. They are gravel pits that are fed only by rainwater and underground streams. We catch very few smaller bass now and it has been that way for three years. When we bought the back pond in 2003 we would catch over a hundred sometimes. It was all take before then but as we started putting the big ones back they worked on the smaller bass. This might work for you. We take out a lot of fish but no bass except one 23 in. that weighted 9 lb.7 oz. that my great-nephew caught this year. The back pond floods and has at least 20 different species so it may not be comparable to your pond. If you will go back a few days to an aeration thread there are pictures of my ponds. Bill Cody knows his stuff and you may have hit the ceiling as we have too.
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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I agree with Bill. Get another prof opinion from someone that has success growing double digit LMB before adding GS. I suggest buying the "Raising Trophy Bass" book from the Pond Boss store. If the GS get out of hand, it'd be impossible to remove them. When the pond was shocked, how many BG/ac did they say you had, and what was the population size range like? From ewest: (my coloring of text) "You have to have large predators to eat big GShad. IMO at least 25 % of the LMB over 20 inches. Here is a pic of a GShad At the 20 inch range for these GShad I am not sure any LMB can eat them. Plus they suppress reproduction of other more desirable pond species."
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Thanks to everyone for the comments so far. Bill and esshup, the negatives seem pretty frightening. My thoughts were that in a mature pond, with other forage (BG, RES, TFS), competition and big predators would help prevent GSD from reaching mammoth proportions. Has anyone on the forum actually had GSD, and experienced the negative consequences? What about the opposite. Are there any pond owners who have stocked GSD in a 10+ acre pond that can claim success?
Wade B, I noticed the website in your sig. Are you in the business? Have you had customers that have successfully added GSD?
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OP
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Bill Cody, I have another question based on your comment above. If indeed I am lacking in 2-4" BG, would not the TFS shad fill that gap?
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I agree with Bill and esshup. Plus adding G Shad into a pond with TFS does not always result in a viable population of GShad establishing. Many times it fails due to competition. What about tilapia ? Also if you are short on 3-4 inch BG then you have to many LMB in the 10 - 13 inch size not to many 16 + LMB. Adding 5 inch BG would also help plus feeding them if possible. GShad are my last option because of the risk of and cost to start over.
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The only experience with GShad is up here in a local public lake. I know that there weren't enough large LMB in the lake, and someone bucket stocked them (I assume) thinking that they were TShad. IIRC, the last DNR gill net survey said 60% of the biomass in the lake was GShad. LMB fishing isn't near as good as it was 20+ years ago. Don't know if they have anything to do with that, or it's was the once a week tournaments from April thru September that the lake saw for 5-6 years in a row. It's a 365 acre lake.
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Esshup,isn't it true that most lakes decline after ten or so years but rivers,tidal and freshwater stay the same.Any thoughts why?
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I have gizzard shad in my pond and as of yet have not seen any fish as large as the ones being held up in the pictures. The bass really feed heavily on them around the aerators where the shad congregate. Im not sure why they haven't overpopulated or grown to giant size. If I started over the only fish i would not stock for sure would be catfish. p.s. I did not stock the gizzard shad
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