I did a search, but only found scanty information on adding Crawfish/Mud Bugs for forage. Could be because I think the Yankees call them Crayfish?

Any way, any thoughts on what might need to be done to get a population of Crawfish established in about a 20 acre Southeast Texas lake?

Are they worth adding to provide additional forage for the LMB and Catfish?

BigMac:

I tried an open (all categories, all dates, all members) search for "crawdad" or "crayfish." This pulled up 32 threads, about a quarter of looked from the titles like they SHOULD be pretty good prospects for info. But on quick inspection, they did seem fairly scanty.

Damn Yankees. They won't search for "mud bugs."

For reasons that I'm not too sure of, I've always felt that if you build it, they will come. Crayfish, that is.

Put out a bunch of flat rocks in water 1' deep near the shores of your pond (I mean lake, at 20 acres).

Wait a week and then go see if you have crayfish or not.

Here is more info on raising crawfish than one could want. Look at the SRAC fact sheets for how to raise and life history, food etc.

http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=9

While you look at this I will find the info on crawfish as bass forage.

http://www.sepond.com/Craw.html

Sunil, are you talking about crawdads? Speak English, boy.

I've stocked them 3 or 4 times in small ponds but they all died. I have always gotten them from the local grocery store, put them on ice, and made a fast trip. When they have thawed out they were feisty and went into the water. When I've returned, it looked like they had committed suicide by coon. They had all left the water and gone up on the bank to meet their fate. I made some calls to crawdad raisers in Louisiana and the consensus was that they had been in the store too long. I guess the answer is to get them shipped directly from the farm and get them in the water ASAP. The price was a bunch higher than at the store. I probably won't mess with them again. However, in Houston, you might be able to make a fast trip and get them.

I've also heard that "in the store too long" quote. For some reason, they seem to live their will to live.

Thanks for the URL. Looks like I have some reading to do. I look forward to receiving the URL for using them as Bass forage. I do know I have caught some humongous Flathead, by putting Crawfish on trot or jug lines.

I have seen a mound or two, so the "build it and they will come" statement applies. If they are good Bass and Catfish forage, then I would very much like to see if I can increase their numbers. Even if it only serves to get the Bass to eat my Crawfish lures.

fat-fingers, should read "lose their will to live".

Add to the above links :

POND BOSS
Stocking crawfish for forage. MAY-JUNE 1993

I think it is really the issue prior to this.

http://www.pondboss.com/library.pdf

Here's my experience with crawfish. First, up north, they call them 'crabs.' Don't ask me why. Crawfish are great forage, but can't survive long term without perfect habitat and plentiful food. You can stock them over and over, but without those key items, crawfish won't survive long enough to establish. Look at crawfish/crayfish/mudbugs/crabs as a supplemental forage fish, or even as a minor seasonal player in a diverse food chain. By the way, in a pond rich with bass and bluegill, expect crawfish to hide in tight areas, such as riprap rocks, heavy brush or timber. They eat decaying vegetation, flesh if they can get it, and burrow into heavy clay soils to reproduce. While they are nice nuggets which bass readily inhale, don't expect them to be a major player in any bass pond.

That's kind of what I figured. In the Black Gumbo Clay of southeast Texas and Louisiana they seem to be prevalent, but where this lake is a bit further North, near Lake Livinston, there is much more sand.

I recently added over 80 Xmas tress for fish cover. It was a lot of work, but I was happily surprised at how fast the smaller fish began using it for cover.

I guess I should consider the Crawfish to be supplemental forage that I drop into a brush pile, every Spring season, for a quick protein boost before the Bass begin to spawn. Over time, surviving Crawfish may start a small colony, which would be an added benefit.

Thanks to all and now we have a good thread to search on, with all the common names for the little lobsters.

I stocked them almost 2 years ago and they have done pretty well. In the spring I will see them crossing the road and in the grass along the banks. After stocking them I could cheat fish by using a crawfish lure and would have great luck. I picked up several hundred from a farm in LA for a lot less then I could get them locally.

Good luck.

Texas715,
About where did you stock them?
Was that Crawfish farm, not too far into Louisiana? I am now looking for a farm, where I can go to pick up a 100 to 200 hundred pounds of them.

Does any one else know of a source closer to Houston and/or Beaumont? How do you transport them for several hours and keep them alive?

bigmac,

The Fiesta stores in Houston carry them in 100 pound bags in season.

Cool! Can I just put them in the trunk of the car and transport them, for about 1.5 hours, to the big pond/lake or do I need ice chests, with water in them, etc.?

We sell them in GA. easy to transport. Just keep them cool. Best to staock before April. You might place a bag of ice in the trunk then place trash bag between them and crawfish and wrap them all in tarp. Most important is to not let them catch wind if in back of truck. They come in bags of 35-50 lbs.

In spring '05, I put about 10,000 crawdads into my 6-7 acre pond. There is a lot of habitat for them in my pond. You can flip any rock and find some.

I would say that maybe every 50th fish caught will have two pinchers and some antennae sticking out of his gullet. What does this observation mean? Beats me, but I thought I would mention it. I'm not saying that a lot of fish are not eating crawdads in my pond, just that you don't always see evidence of it.

There is an entire section in this link on transporting live crawfish pg. 5-6 .

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/8989590-SRAC2402.pdf

Add this to your considerations.

Abstract.—We attempted to control a population of papershell crayfish (Orconectes immunis) in an 11-hectare fish-rearing impoundment in Jackson County, Wisconsin, by using traps and by stocking largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides). Crayfish were harvested with traps during the summer of 1985, and the pond was stocked with 386 largemouth bass (mean weight, 1.1 kg) in spring 1986. The pond was drained in the fall of 1985 and 1986, and crayfish burrow counts were made to estimate the population. In 1985, we trapped more than 18,000 crayfish, of which 72% were adult males. Trapping had minor effect on the young-of-the-year crayfish. In 1986, the crayfish population was reduced by 98%, predation by largemouth bass being the probable major cause of the reduction.

Greg,

Correction...most important is to not forget they are in your trunk.

Did that once with bait shrimp...might as well buy a new car.

Woo-hoo! Fiesta says the season starts the end of February and the prices come way down from the current $4.99 a pound. They told me I have to call or come into the store to order them.

I found a farm that will ship to me or I can pick the Crawfish up at the airport. I think Fiesta migth be cheaper, when the season starts.
http://www.klcrawfishfarms.com/#Place

man how much cheaper??? That is crazy price. I get them from LA the day they are taken out of rice field. I of course make money but still sell them for $2.50/lb but I hear my price is going up, but $5.00 man I wish I could get that. I would think it is worth drive to La if paying that much.

Yes, but for $4.99 a pound these Crawfish also perform acupuncture treatments and sing "Take me to the river".

I'm sure shipping costs have gone way up, since last year. For this time of the year, that $4.99 a pound is normal in Houston. Last year, in season, I bought them for $2.99 a pound.

I wish I could go pick them up at the farm, but I have not come across that resource, yet. hint, hint to forum members...

bigmac wrote: "Yes, but for $4.99 a pound these Crawfish also perform acupuncture treatments and sing "Take me to the river"."

It's always nice when you can get dual usage out of your pond residents.

There are some crawfish fields between Winnie and Beaumont, or maybe between Houston and Winnie. I go that way often. i will get the ph number if i can remember next time.

Bigmac

How far you willing to drive?
I harvested these crawdads (northern variety) from neighbors irrigation pond.

[img]http://www.redsplash.com/ims/pic.php?u=2728E8VpV&i=28847[/img]

Cost: one 12 pack......err, make that an 11 pack.

Ed

Edward,
Well, sounds good and the price is definitely right. I'm just afraid those tender, baby Crawfish wouldn't make it down here with our Texas summers and Wyoming is bit far for me to drive.

Burgermeister,
That would be great! I would really appreciate it. I found some other contacts that I'll check out, too.
http://www.texasaquaculture.org/id86.htm

If you wait until the middle part of the season, don't be surprised to buy them for less than $1.25 per pound. I've bought them from Fiesta for $.99 per pound, two years ago.

I put them in the heaviest cover that I had. I'm trying to find where that place was. There are farms just east of Houston though.

Suggestion: Buy and extra 50lbs., make a list of work to be done and invite people over for a boil after the work is done.

I wish I could find that type of pricing up here. I usually get the crayfish/mud bugs/crawfish at about $0.10/per crayfish. I havent been able to find anything up here for anywhere near what you are getting them for. Ahhh so goes it with things up north.

Eric,

The first link posted by ewest states the minimum marketable size crawfish runs 23 crawfish/lb. (3 1/2") The larger sizes run 10-15/lb. Depending on the size bug you're buying, 10 cents/crawfish sounds reasonable.

In reference to Bob's post, I've never heard them
refered to as "crabs". Thats a new one.

Bob, I'd love to get them at those prices.

Texas715, I plan to take a day and see if I can find one of those farms, near by. 50 pounds for me was already in the plan. I try to have a Crawfish boil every March.

The price from Fiesta is for 15 to 17 Crawfish per pound. Some monsters, but not babies.

Eric, If you are interested in getting crayfish, my fish guy will be getting more around May '06. If you want his contact info., let me know. He's from Harrisburg, PA, and you are in his delivery range.

Thanks Sunil! I would love to find someone close by who has a reasonable price. The guy I am talking about at the $0.10 /crayfish has only about 1/2 - 1 1/2 inch crayfish. Nothing too big at that price and I am betting his are more like 50 - 75/lb. Since my pond is small I am not sure how much I might need, but my smallies and perch I am sure would love to see more in there than what I currently have. I havent seen any since I put them in, but you know how mud bugs are they hide well.

Eric, I tried to send you an email and it bounced back, and you don't seem to have a PM option.

Call John Sproch at 717-350-4431, and he can give you pricing.

Good luck.

Hmmmm shouldnt have bounced back. I will check into that. PM option? Never had that either. I must be living in the dark ages here. Either way, thanks for the info I will give John a shout.

1/2 to 1 1/2" puts a different light on it. Thanks Eric.

Don't feel too bad about the PM option. I'm embarrassed to say that until a recent message showed up in my mail, I didn't know anything about PMs. When I went to view the message, I noticed a couple of notes from when I first joined the board.....almost 4 years ago now.

Remember Grimes post from a few weeks back. He had like 35 PMs from the past few years that he never knew about.

Sunil Yep never knew about them either, spend about an hour returning them all.

Ahhh at least I am not alone!!! Great thing about this forum we can pontificate on how smart we think we are but in short we see how ( how shall I say it ) less than smart we really are

Hey guys, Most crawfish originate from my area of SW Louisiana. I am finishing up a 20 acre cypress lake now and I also farm crawfish. Due to the influx of salt water in to the southernmost crawfish areas from the hurricanes, crawfish will be in shorter supply this year. The current price paid by the processors for our catch is 2.00/lb. At that price I would not eat them or feed them to my own fish. I suggest waiting until March or April when the prices should be better. Good Luck.

Thanks! I'm also hearing that prices will be up and to wait, until late March/early April to make the purchase. I doubt the Bass and Catfish will care if the shells are a bit tougher.

I just stuck a pool thermometer in my end of the lake, so I hope to have an idea of who will begin spawning and when. The only pool thermometer I could find has a yellow duckie on the top. I can already imagine the comments from the guys and probably my Mom, too. :rolleyes:

bobguillory, thanks for the input.

Do you happen to know the type (scientific name, or genus?) of crawdad that you raise?

Sunil I can see the wheels turning but before any one buys craws from a different local and stocks them think about the results ,if any, to your pond. If they are like fish , which I suspect , will they live and thrive in you local and what effect will they have on your pond. I don't know the answer but would want it before I act. Will, for example , LA craws kill off you native ones and then die out because they can't take the cold winter ? Those type questions come to mind.

crawfish link --
http://aquanic.org/beginer/crawfish/crawfish.htm

I saw an article recently about a "Rusty Red Crawfish" that , if I recall , was a problem up north. I can't find the article and am hazy on it anyway.

Rusty (Red?) Crawdads were discussed here previously. I remember about as much as ewest, that they're bad news.

I think the evil crawdad is called "Rusticus Immunus" or something very close.

He will take over your pond if transplanted.

My question was really out of curiosity, not the intent to buy crayfish from the south.

Here is an article on the Rusty Crayfish:

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/aqua/northern.html

It doesn't seem evil according to that document.

Bigmac you haven't been the only one with the ducky thermometer. I had one until my lab was fed up and took care of that one. I have replaced it since with a regular pool one.

ceadmin :

Thanks for the link. That was not the article I saw and nither is the abstract below (but it may be the basis for the article I saw which I think was in North American Fisherman or In-Fisherman )
anyway I can't find it now. This study provides that the Rusty Red has caused the extintion of several US crawfish varities.

Nonindigenous Crayfishes Threaten North American Freshwater Biodiversity: Lessons from Europe
David M. Lodge

Department of Biological Sciences, University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, IN 46556; E-mail: lodge.l@nd.edu

Christopher A. Taylor

Illinois Natural History Survey, Center for Biodiversity, 607 East Peabody Drive, Champaign, IL 61820; E-mail: ctaylor@mail.inhs.uiuc.edu

David M. Holdich

School of Biological Sciences, University of Nottingham, Nottingham NG7 2RD, UK; E-mail: david.holdich@nottingham.ac.uk

Jostein Skurdal

Norwegian Institute for Nature Research, Fakkel-gården, N-2624 Lillehammer, Norway; E-mail: jostein.skurdal@ninalil.ninaniku.no

Abstract.—North America harbors about 390 native species of crayfishes, 75% of the world's total. In this article, we highlight the threats posed by nonindigenous crayfishes to freshwater ecosystem function, fisheries, and the biodiversity of native crayfishes; draw some lessons for North American freshwater conservation from the experience with nonindigenous crayfishes in Europe; and review existing regulations that address the introduction of nonindigenous crayfishes. Most North American crayfishes have naturally small ranges in the southeastern United States, rendering them very vulnerable to environmental change. In contrast, Europe has only five, broadly distributed, native crayfishes, all of which have been greatly affected by environmental changes, especially the introduction of nonindigenous crayfishes (mostly from North America). In response, many European governments have adopted strict regulations to protect native crayfishes. The loss of thousands of populations of native European crayfishes and the political responses to it offer useful guidance to efforts to protect North American freshwater biodiversity and ecosystems. As in Europe, the most important threat to native North American crayfish biodiversity is nonindigenous crayfishes (many from within North America). In several well-documented cases, nonindigenous crayfishes have greatly altered North American lake and stream ecosystems, harmed fisheries, extirpated many populations of native crayfishes, and contributed to the global extinction of at least one native crayfish species. However, most species are still relatively unaffected, but the smaller ranges of most North American crayfishes make them more vulnerable than European crayfishes. Thus, a narrow window of opportunity exists to protect the function of North American aquatic ecosystems, their fisheries, and the unique biodiversity of crayfishes that they contain.

ewest,

Is this what you were looking for??

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/exotics/rusty.html


Can be found in http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000055#000003

Russ :

Great info. It seems to be the same info and warnings that the study above and the article I read contained. The place I saw the short article was a mag. with a picture and short article. I bet it came from this same data source.

The best way to keep them alive (though this may not be as feasable with larger quantities) is to put a bag or two of ice in an ice chest, then use a couple of wooden slats, then put the bags of crawfish on top of the wood. The key thing is to keep the crawfish cool and moist but do NOT let them get wet. This keeps them inactive and prevents them from killing each other trying to get out of the sack.

On a slightly related note, you can always spot a fellow coonass in front of a pile of bright red boiled crawfish by saying, "Don't eat the dead ones." If he doesn't look perplexed, he's a coonass.

The source I am checking for Crawfish is: http://www.texascrawfish.com/.
They say they are not large enough to sell, yet. Darn Katrina and Rita!

I just bought 170 to 200 Ghost/Glass/Grass Shrimp. We'll se if Ic an get a population started in the 78 Xmas trees I sunk. I found 4 sites that sell them, but the first site had the best price, overall. We'll see how it goes.
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1468
http://www.livebrineshrimp.com/
http://store.yahoo.com/fish2u/scgs.html
http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_307.html

bigmac - your grrass shrimp will do best and thrive if there are beds of vegetation growing in the pond. The more vegetation that you have the better the grass shrimp will thrive.

good info, bigmac. I've been looking for a source. Unless I am not reading it correctly, the 1st site cost is $30.00 for 85-100, and the brineshrimp site is $12.00 for 100. Maybe the shipping cost difference makes the 1st one cheaper?

Aww, about half the Xmas trees are sunk, vertical, but come within a foot of the surface. After 3 weeks, the tops are totally covered with algae.

The other half of the Xmas trees are in about two foot of water, next to a large grass bed, laid horizontally, with open gaps in strategic areas of the pile. I've already counted lots of little Blue Gills in these sheltered open areas. I think they are migrating from the more confined space of the grass bed. There are also two more large grass beds, that I plan to 'seed' with the grass shrimp.

On pricing: Yes, overall. Liveaquaria also answered the phone and answered my additonal questions about which subspecies they sold. There's two, but I can't spell them and have to go back to work, so don't have time to copy the names in this post, at this time.

Burgermeister, you're right!
http://www.livebrineshrimp.com/ is the lowest price, including shipping, at this time.

I think crawfish are a little over rated as forage. One tends to get a vision of great numbers of them walking along the pond bottom, and bass feeding on them. This isn't the way it works. Crawfish immediately dig in where they's safe from predation. They are highly territorial. They venture out of their hole warily, but get a little careless during the spawn. Most forage will be from the numerous young that haven't found a territory.

Having said that, crawfish can still make up an important part of a diverse forage base, even if eaten in relitavely small numbers.

I think crawfish are a little over rated as forage. One tends to get a vision of great numbers of them walking along the pond bottom, and bass feeding on them. This isn't the way it works. Crawfish immediately dig in where they's safe from predation. They are highly territorial. They venture out of their hole warily, but get a little careless during the spawn. Most forage will be from the numerous young that haven't found a territory.

Having said that, crawfish can still make up an important part of a diverse forage base, even if eaten in relitavely small numbers.

bobad, that makes sense. Since my ponds are small, I also like the idea of having a supply of Crawfish I can trap to hit the larger lakes in the area. They make great trotline bait.

I find that as bass numbers increase, crawdad numbers decrease. I think I would rather have a good forage pond for them so I could keep resupplying the main ponds.

I live in Indiana and recntly purchased a house with a pond and some springs on it. I am looking to stock the pond with crayfish/crawdads/mudbugs. Where can I get some of these and what would be a fair price.?

Cheapest price I have found is about $6-8 for a trap ar Wal-Mart and a couple bucs for some cheap dog food They are very easy to trap, the only problem is the potential to carry disease to your pond. I wash any and all that I catch in water from the pond before I transplant them. Also, it can be rather time consuming to go through and identify every one you catch, just to make sure you don't get a non-target species, like the Rusty, in with the bunch. Lots of labor, saves on money. There is a link above where you can have some shipped to you. A little pricey, but saves you the trouble of the above activities. Otherwise, call around to fish farms near you and see if they can get them for you.