I'm looking for suggestions on larger forage fish that will be a big fish supplement to the threadfin shad and bluegill. So far, I'm looking into gizzard shad, golden shiners and lake chubsuckers as a possibilities.

I'm sure there are pros and cons to each and hope you guys might help outline those for me.

Any ideas or info appreciated.

Thanks,
Keith

What size/species are the fish that you are wanting to feed the forage to?

Most on here would agree that stocking gshad should be reserved for ponds that have a high percentage of larger LMB present. I think the % and size may vary by opinion, but you should probably have at least 25% of your LMB population in the 16"-18"+ size range before considering stocking gshad. If your goal is to grow large LMB and you are not worried about the affect gshad may have on your panfish population. Lake chubsuckers will compete the least with your panfish population, but require a good amount of vegetation and softer waters to do well. Golden shiners are a good alternative as they are very adaptable to a number of pond conditions, but if you have a well established predator base in your pond already, getting them established may be a trick...

Sorry- LMB are the fish I want to feed. This is a 35 acre lake that has just started to decline. It's still a real gem, trophy lake by any standards with extremely high catch rates of 6-10 lb bass. Bob did an electroshocking this past fall and we confirmed that the forage base had simply been eaten up. And as a result, some of the bigger fish are starting to show up skinny. I know that the shad and bluegill restocking will be "enough" but want to give the bigger fish every opportunity to recover and have another food source that the little fish will have trouble depleting in the future.

thanks again

If you have large numbers of 6-10 pound bass and it is a 35 acre lake, I think gizzard shad could be a viable option. I am a big fan of diversified forage. Rather than relying on one or two species, I like to stock as many as I can. Many times not all will survive or thrive in a certain pond for what ever reason. But you cannot have too many different species for your predators to eat. One year one forage species may have a poor year while another species may have a boom year. If you only have 1 or 2 forage species, there is a no back up option. If it was me, depending on your finances, I'd look into stocking multiple species. I am not intimately familiar with the habitat your lake contains, but lakes of that size usually have more diverse habitats than smaller ponds and therefore have higher odds of supporting multiple forage fish species. I would look into stocking both species of shad, golden shiners and lake chubsuckers.

What kind of harvesting plan do you have in place on the bass from year to year. If they're eating up the food chain seems like you might need to bump it up a little. Whats the catch rates like?

I believe I would ask Bob for his recommendations since he knows the lake.

I wonder if you could establish a population of Yellow Perch down there in Texas.

I know they are generally regarded as a colder water fish, but when a guy raises nice smallmouth in Phoenix AZ, anything might be possible.

I agree with everything said so far, and would like to throw tilapia in the mix. I dont know if you have the budget for that much fish every year, but you could add them at some figure. Once again just ask Bob what he thinks.

Thanks for the input. Bob did actually mention Tilapia as a good option. We had a brief conversation about gizzard shad or other possibilities... but his initial concern was threadfin shad and fertilization. I'm looking for something that will establish and reproduce.... tilapia are to much $$$ for annual stocking. Also have 2 separate ponds that can be used as brooder ponds at our disposal. Was thinking about using them to raise forage fish since our budget won't allow a full blown stocking in the big lake. What we lack in cash, we hope to make up for in other ways. All of this is research for me, not about to make a quick or rash decision.

Thanks again,
keith

edited to add that we are aggressively harvesting (and documenting) sub 15" LMB, per Bob's instruction.

Good job... When you have forage ponds at your disposal, it opens up a lot of options. Keep us updated and let us know what you end up deciding to do and why... Thanks!

Have you thought about stocking SOME tilapia in the brooder ponds and seining them out? You ought to make it through the year by starting with a smaller number ($) of fish. With no predators they ought to produce a lot of forage.

Bob's advice is probably your best bet. Tilapia are best if used year after year, but in your case, with a declining bluegill population, a year or two of stocking may allow the bluegill and shad to stabilize and start to emerge once again. I would also suggest laying the hammer on some bass.

-HH

I think what Dave is saying is that a pond free of fish (forage pond) could stocked with, say, ten tilapia each year, at a low cost, and they would spawn a lot thus producing the larger forage fish each year.

If they die off over the winter, you by ten more tilapia for the forage pond.

Im with you on not going with Tilapia in a 35 acre. Just too much $$$ every year. We have 30 acre lake on the ranch, so I feel your pain on managing it.

What do you cull out in Lbs per acre yearly of these -15" fish?

We pulled everything 18" and under last year and took out about +/- 22 lbs to the acre! With that behind us im anxious to see if things are picking up or not.

You might have to bump it up to 18" or below taking out some of the larger 16-18" fish that are hammering your brooder BG and T-shad.

Flechero, no matter how you try to slice it, no fish available for stocking can produce higher numbers of forage than tilapia...none

In your forage pond scenario, feeding aquamax 5D00 and 5D01 for fry would cost < $100 for the entire season. and the grower pellets would cost around $40 per 50 pound bag.

With these nutritionally COMPLETE diet feeds in your forage pond, you will get about 1 pound of fish for every 1.5 pounds of feed. Throw a bunch of fertilizer in to grow algae and you can reduce the feed cost.

Even if CC or BG could gain one pound flesh per four pounds feed, you won't find a decent feed for one third the tilapia feed price, or any fish that will produce nealy the total pounds of fish annually.

Also, Tilapia need to be stocked based on VEGETATED acres, not surface acres...A 35 acre pond at 10 pounds per surface acre with Moz. is roughly $3500 annually --- if this same pond has 10 acres that doesn't produce vegetation, the stocking rate would be for 25 surface acres.

Tilapia are the lowest priced forage fish, period.

A benefit to the larger bass gorging themselves in the fall on larger tilapia will result in the bass entering winter with more lipids (fat) and the fat produces far more energy than the muscle mass normally consumed during the winter. This results in less weight loss for the bass over the winter and probably no loss in muscle mass...your fish have the potential to become even larger than a normal forage scenario would allow.