My pond has filled back up. I still need to get some more cover in the way of cedar and hedge trees in it, but its pretty much time to start adding some fish.

So I think what I would like to focus on pretty large HBG. But what should I put in to control the population of HBG?

I was thinking either SMB or LMB. In some of the other post there seemed to be a concern that there would not be enough HBG young to keep LMB fed. But I am assuming that that was to grow big bass. I like SMB too, but assume the LMB would do better in the quality of water I have.

So I have a 1/2 acre pond, that is generally on the muddy side. It is 6' deep max. Mud bottom and banks, almost no vegetation. This is a cattle pond.

Fishing purpose: young kids and me with a flyrod.

I assume I will need some FHM along with the HBG. How many would you all recommend. Also do I add the bass at the same time or later?

Thanks
Steve

The better and more diverse the food chain you have before you add bigger fish, the better off you'll be. I doubt smallmouth would reproduce in the conditions you describe. Do you want reproduction of your top predator? Not having reproduction offers more control of what's going on in the long run... But you may have to add or remove until you find the balance you want and then periodically add as fish are lost. At least five pounds of FHM and plenty of spawning structure for them would be a good start... Are there other good forage minnows that do well in your area? The more fish you start out with, the more forage fish you'll need. Are you going to supplemental feed?

I don't know of anyone doing much besides FHM in this area, other than the BG for the bass.

I think the kids would have fun keeping any of the larger bass, so I would rather have them reproducing, letting the smaller bass keeping the HBG under control.

To keep the FHM reproducing, what type of cover do I need to add to the pond?

How many and HBG would be a reasonable number to start the stocking with? Couple hundred?

I'm pretty new to all this stuff also... But from what I've read here, a pond of your description can support about fifty pounds of fish total. More ( perhaps many more) if you supplement feed, aerate, fertilize if needed, etc, etc. In other words, the healthier your pond is, the more fish it is capable of supporting. Over stocking sets the stage for a big die off. A hundred half pound fish and you're at fifty pounds. If you add a couple hundred, then add your bass to that... How many total pounds will that be in three or four years? A lot of factors to consider. Lots of info on FHM spawning here, many guys stick cedar shingles in shallow water for them to spawn under. I built some of these... But it's too early for me to report how effective they are.

Setter,

There is soooooooo much stuff out here on what your asking in the Stocking a new pond section of the forum all you ever wanted to know for your size pond.... As stated above some of it depends on what your goals are with your pond and if your running air or feeding or fertilizing....

I can tell you this. You need a good base of food first. LMB will eat you out of house and home.... I would put 5 to 10 pounds of FHMs in your pond and very small HBG if that's what you want don't quote me on this I am sure someone else can give you a more accurate number but 300 or so HBG.... Like I said read in the stocking section there are guys all over this site that have HBG I am sure you can find what your looking for there. No matter what you do I would wait till fall to put my predator fish in the pond....

P.S. You can use a lot of stuff for your FHM. I have a few tires/ some use pallets attached to each other. Cinder blocks work well cause they can get inside them....

RC

I have access to as many pallets as I want and I will be putting several trees in the pond. Cover will not be a problem to improve.

I would tend to think going on the heavy side on the FHM should not be a problem. The size and number of HBG to start with is something I am not too sure about,

setternut, I might suggest 10 Hybrid Striped Bass and 300 Hybrid Bluegill, plus 50 Redear for snail control. You could also stock 50-60 Hybrid Black Crappie and 5 SMB plus one lone LMB (or 2 if known same sex) after a year. You'd have good variety to catch, but may need to add 5-10 pounds of Golden shiners for a sustainable forage.

You budget is the best indicator of what size of fish to stock, plus how little patience you have. Large fish cost more, but could get some fishing this fall. Small fish are considerably less money, but it may be 2 years before you'll have a "keeper".

Don't plan on FHM lasting very long in the pond...they are just too slow to avoid becoming lunch.

You could even put in up to 10 Channel Cats if not feeding pellets, and 30-40 if you like the table fare and consistently feed good quality pellets.

If cattle enter the pond. Id just stock HBG and CC. If possible, add a watering trough below the dam and fence out the cows for much better fishing.

You can clear the muddy water using Alum (unless cattle keep it muddy).

FWIW. I think that "50#" of fish, is per acre/foot, and predators. Good management with a typical LMB/BG pond needs about 50# of LMB to be harvested, per surface acre, annually to prevent/slow overpopulating. There is a lot more than 50# fish in an acre of water.

Start with the goal you stated - "Fishing purpose: young kids and me with a flyrod."

With HSB and HBG you are talking about a put and take fishery as reproduction of those fish are not an issue (as long as the HBG offspring are mostly eaten).

Will you be feeding pellets ?

Hollywood,
I like your floating island with FHM spawning spaces in the pictures above. In the second picture, what is on top of the island? Sticks? Geese preventer device? Is the pink foam covered up on top or exposed to sun?

Have you been able to pull the float back in and see if eggs are in the little sections of gutter?

Thanks, I kind of like this plan. Putting in the HSB and HBG this season and evaluate what I see in the spring next year. Should I just go ahead and put in both FHM and the Golden Shiners now as well.

If choosing to add the Golden Shiners to your eventual mix, Yes, put them in at the start, before adding predators, for the best chance of them establishing.

It's been pretty cold here, spawning for them is just starting. I haven't pulled them to look but did see a male guarding one of the spaces in between pieces. I started out by just gluing the pieces on but then decided to go with zip ties. Those are the tag ends you see sticking up. I left them because when I get times I'm going mud up the top...thought those would help hold that in place. It's covered with outdoor carpeting.

He said it was a 1/2 acre pond. I've seen 100 pounds per acre listed as a starting point. Is that per acre foot, or surface area? Anyone know for sure?

Per surface acre . I have not seen any fisheries population data on a acre foot basis.

yep never seen per acre foot either. Probly because after surface acres the best way to describe or calculate conditions is with structure and habbitat unless going the comercial direction, with gallons per minute and feed (I'm more familiar with raceways and trout set ups, not so much with a comercial catfish pond)

That's what I thought, thanks.

I have not found a source for Golden Shinners in the area. I am in the eastern 1/3 of Ks.

Are they not a common item?

Give Rex (Rainman) here on the forum, he might be able to help.

Have you talked to Hartleys? http://www.hartleyfishfarmsinc.com/

What part of KS are you in? Harrison Fishery, in NE MO, sells golden shiners. He's willing to come to where I am in SW MO with a relatively small order, $200+, so if you're in NE KS he might be willing to deliver to you kim@harrisonfishery.com

I am out in the Manhattan area. so I am 2 hours west of KC.

I guess you could contact him. He's making a delivery to a place 40 mi north of Joplin on what was Hwy 71 (it's an Interstate now, and I'm not sure of the number, maybe 47)on Thrs. He's going to swing past me on his way home. His name is Curtis. The business name is Harrison Fishery. It's in Hurdland, MO, ph: (660) 423-5482. He sells an interesting variety of fish, including muskies, northern pike, green sunfish (although he doesn't list them), and golden shiners.

I went ahead and put in 250 Hybrid Bluegill and 5 lb FHM.
Did not get any Redear yet. Will let them get a start and then add some bass this fall or next spring.

I am not sure about local laws but I had golden shiner brood fish shipped from Anderson minnow farm in Arkansas. They have been good hearty minnows they come to feeder every day and are almost 6" long now.

Call Shawn Banks of midwestlake.com.

He's in Polo, MO, which is near KC.

Thanks all. I will give some of these folks a call.

The next decision I will have to make this fall or next spring is what predator. I really like the idea of SMB, but I don't have a lot of confidence in how they will do in my pod that tends to get pretty muddy.

Talk to Chris Steelman here on the forum. He had them in Texas in a pretty turbid pond.

I am leaning toward the SMB, and if they don't do well I can always go to LMB.

Its been about 6 weeks since I added the HBG and the FHM.
I was walking around the bank looking to see if I could see any signs of my fish of minnows. The water is much clearer than what it has been in the past now that I have killed off all of the bullheads.

But I had a grasshopper spook and jump in the pond, in about 2 seconds I had a 3-4" BG come up and hit it on the surface. They have grown a little so far.

setternut, pray, do tell, how did you kill off all the bullheads? They are not easy to selectively remove!

I drained the pond down as far as I could, then added hydrated lime.
this thread has more detail.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=442542#Post442542