I just wanted to get some feedback on my stocking plan, I have done a lot of research and just wanted to make sure I am on the right path. Thank you...
Central Indiana - Brand New Pond dug in summer of 2023 2 acre pond, 12 feet deep at its deepest. Lots of fish structure and a very large breeding area with sand and various size fish structures. Have two Texas Feeders on the pond, will feed Optimal Fish Food (qty 4) dual head aerators spread out in the pond
Stocked Late Summer of 2023 100 lbs Fathead Minnows 100 lbs Golden Shiners
Stocking this late March 2024 3000 Bluegill 2"- 3" 1000 Bluegill 3"- 4" 1000 Redear 2"- 3" 12 Grass Carp
Next year early summer 2025 100 Large Mouth Bass 50 Hybrid Striped Bass
I appreciate any feedback and recommendations, but please provide reasoning for recommendations.
1., why grass carp? 2., What size bass will be stocked in 25? If less than 8", stock 2500 4-5" BG and forget the 3000 2-3". 3., I like the LMB numbers in general, size may change my mind. 4., I would be inclined to wait until fall of 25 or spring of 26 for HSB.
I agree, why the Grass Carp? I don't recommend stocking them unless you have an underwater weed problem and don't want to manage the problem weeds with herbicides. If there aren't enough weeds in the pond now, they will muddy the water rooting around trying to find something, anything to eat and then trying to get underwater weeds established will be very difficult. Where in Central Indiana? We are about 30 miles S of South Bend.
Do you have spawning habitat in the pond for the different species of fish?
I live in Whitestown, about 30 minutes north of Indianapolis.
Might wait on the grass carp then and see if I have a problem. Was just told to get a head start on the grass as most ponds in our area do have a problem due to run off from farm land; i.e. high phosphate.
Size of fish (bass) planning to stock? I see the group you posted on, I'm on there as well, you have to be very careful of using the info you get there-or anywhere for that matter. We can give you some very sound advice here if you share your goals/intensions.
I have not decided on size yet. I guess it would depend on what is available at the time, and the cost. Goals are to have a good LMB and HSB fishing pond. Don't want catfish or anything else.
Would it be a concern to add the HSB a year after the LMB? Wouldn't they just be food for the LMB, ofcourse depending on the size of the HSB?
bstone - the advice here is not biased nor trying to sell you anything. Advice here comes from very knowledgeable and experienced pond owners and professional pond managers. When you provide a definitive goal for the fishery, we can then provide information and options for you to make some wise and important decisions.to achieve your goals. Pond management is not just about adding the right fish. Most importantly the long term quality of the fishery is about wise and proper management of the fish that were stocked. Important topics are: 1. food chain mgmt, 2, water quality aka Happy Water, 3, the proper amount of managed habitat, and 4, the correct harvest to keep the fish growing well at the correct balance of numbers comprising the carrying capacity and standing crop.
Note- You have good diversity of structures. However I think a lot of the habitat you installed tended to be IMO too spread out - separate units. Good habitat in my concept is more grouped together similar to natural large areas of weed beds or shorelines of fallen wood - trees. Placement of your structure is more focused on fish attractors as separate structures rather than groupings or cities of connected structures together that imitate refuge areas such as weed beds to better improve production and increase standing crop while also attracting fish. Weed beds are in most cases the best overall productive habitats in lakes.
bstone - the advice here is not biased nor trying to sell you anything. Advice here comes from very knowledgeable and experienced pond owners and professional pond managers. When you provide a definitive goal for the fishery, we can then provide information and options for you to make some wise and important decisions.to achieve your goals. Pond management is not just about adding the right fish. Most importantly the long term quality of the fishery is about wise and proper management of the fish that were stocked. Important topics are: 1. food chain mgmt, 2, water quality aka Happy Water, 3, the proper amount of managed habitat, and 4, the correct harvest to keep the fish growing well at the correct balance of numbers comprising the carrying capacity and standing crop.
Note- You have good diversity of structures. However I think a lot of the habitat you installed tended to be IMO too spread out - separate units. Good habitat in my concept is more grouped together similar to natural large areas of weed beds or shorelines of fallen wood - trees. Placement of your structure is more focused on fish attractors as separate structures rather than groupings or cities of connected structures together that imitate refuge areas such as weed beds to better improve production and increase standing crop while also attracting fish. Weed beds are in most cases the best overall productive habitats in lakes.
I appreciate the comments, thank you! I might be able to still move some of the structure in the spawning area, as your comments make sense. I appreciate the advice.
I have not decided on size yet. I guess it would depend on what is available at the time, and the cost. Goals are to have a good LMB and HSB fishing pond. Don't want catfish or anything else.
Would it be a concern to add the HSB a year after the LMB? Wouldn't they just be food for the LMB, ofcourse depending on the size of the HSB?
Can you define good in more detail? It is rather vague and everyone has a different understanding of good.
I have not decided on size yet. I guess it would depend on what is available at the time, and the cost. Goals are to have a good LMB and HSB fishing pond. Don't want catfish or anything else.
Would it be a concern to add the HSB a year after the LMB? Wouldn't they just be food for the LMB, ofcourse depending on the size of the HSB?
Can you define good in more detail? It is rather vague and everyone has a different understanding of good.
The bigger the fish the better, I would rather catch a few large bass then catch a bunch of small bass all day. What every HSB I pull out I would replace, but the LMB I plan on pulling out 40-60 lbs per year after two to three years from being stocked.
Assume you saw the mortality rates for stocking into a LMB pond.
Here is the data and the lost long Bruce/George HSB thread with ladder stocking.
Bruce :
I'd estimate risk of predation from largemouth as follows:
5 inch wiper--80% over one year in presence of LMB 6 inch wiper--65% over one year in presence of LMB 7 inch wiper--45% over one year in presence of LMB 8 inch wiper--15% over one year in presence of LMB 9 inch wiper--negligible mortality.
Your loss rates would IMO be much lower if all you have is larger adult HSB.
Assume you saw the mortality rates for stocking into a LMB pond.
Here is the data and the lost long Bruce/George HSB thread with ladder stocking.
Bruce :
I'd estimate risk of predation from largemouth as follows:
5 inch wiper--80% over one year in presence of LMB 6 inch wiper--65% over one year in presence of LMB 7 inch wiper--45% over one year in presence of LMB 8 inch wiper--15% over one year in presence of LMB 9 inch wiper--negligible mortality.
Your loss rates would IMO be much lower if all you have is larger adult HSB.
Ladder stocking HSB into existing LMB population. For the percent survival of HSB into LMB, all those interested we have to remember that if HSB are stocked one year later the LMB will only be 8"-12" long and they are still focused on eating minnows, 1.5"-2" BG. HSB as 4"-6 " stockers will IMO have higher survival rates. This assumes the stockers are healthy and properly handled. Historically I have had trouble getting good HSB survival of stockers due to HSB do not are not good at tolerating holding, hauling and transport. IMO I would buy a several extra to account for various causes of loss. You can always remove excess HSB when they get to 14"-16" as these are the best sizes for eating. Less red meat along the skin side of the fillet.
Feeding new BG-RES. Yes I would hand feed once or twice a day until you see them eating pellets. If they are small 2"-3" it will take several days to a week or more for them to find the feeding area. Fish that small tend to initially feed on invertebrates and large plankton. I think it is initially a good idea to use a long stick or pole to do a little water splashing in the area where you feed. If you have a dock then bang lightly on the dock. This alerts the fish as to activity and does a fair job of attracting them to the area. Minnows will show up first to the pellet feeding. They attract other fish. A good way to start feeding pellets is to get or make a feeding ring. A quick ring is a hula-hoop anchored with a cord tied to a brick and works to keep the feed from blowing to shore. Ring can be made from PVC pipe or black poly water line. For my feeding rings I install a wind baffle around the inside of the ring to keep more pellets inside the ring on windy days and fish splashing. .
Ladder stocking HSB into existing LMB population. For the percent survival of HSB into LMB, all those interested we have to remember that if HSB are stocked one year later the LMB will only be 8"-12" long and they are still focused on eating minnows, 1.5"-2" BG. HSB as 4"-6 " stockers will IMO have higher survival rates.
+1. I agree.
A 5in HSB weighs 7.5% of a 12" LMB. Very unlikely to be consumed any 12" LMB. A 4" weighs 3.5% of a 12" LMB. Though it is conceivably twice as easy to consume than a 5" it still lies more than 2 standard deviations away from the most common proportion at 0.88% which is presumably the most energetically favorable. These sizes should have good survival with Bill's timing and LMB limited to 12" in length.
Local fishery that I am using sells the HSB at 4-6". They also have the LMB in 4-6". So the plan would be to get 100 LMB and 60 HSB in the same 4-6" range late next year.
Local fishery that I am using sells the HSB at 4-6". They also have the LMB in 4-6". So the plan would be to get 100 LMB and 60 HSB in the same 4-6" range late next year.
Ask the hatchery if they usually have that size LMB available in the Fall. Fish aren't like canned goods. Once they are sold, they might not be available for a year.
Local fishery that I am using sells the HSB at 4-6". They also have the LMB in 4-6". So the plan would be to get 100 LMB and 60 HSB in the same 4-6" range late next year.
Ask the hatchery if they usually have that size LMB available in the Fall. Fish aren't like canned goods. Once they are sold, they might not be available for a year.
HSB availability late in the year are sometimes or often sold out , thus not HSB are available in Fall. Verify with the fish farm for Fall your planned delivery of HSB. You might have to adjust timing of the stockings.
Just to drive that point home, I called a hatchery in Arkansas today for 2.5"-3.5" RES. They are already sold out and all that is left is 1":-2.25" They won't have any 2.5"-3.5" until July at the earliest.
So I got the bluegill and redear delivered a few weeks ago. I now have a blue heron that has taken up residence at my pond. He is getting the very few dead fish, and maybe a few of the ones I see close the edge that are about to die. Again, very few fish that have died or look sick. My question is should I be concerned about the healthy fish? Can the blue heron get the healthy fish? Banks are 3:1 down to 12 feet deep. I do have a spawning area that is 3 feet deep but has a lot of fish structures for hiding. Thought about getting a decoy, anyone have success with one? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
So I got the bluegill and redear delivered a few weeks ago. I now have a blue heron that has taken up residence at my pond. He is getting the very few dead fish, and maybe a few of the ones I see close the edge that are about to die. Again, very few fish that have died or look sick. My question is should I be concerned about the healthy fish? Can the blue heron get the healthy fish? Banks are 3:1 down to 12 feet deep. I do have a spawning area that is 3 feet deep but has a lot of fish structures for hiding. Thought about getting a decoy, anyone have success with one? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
Yes, the Blue Heron can get the healthy fish. I have had them stab Rainbow Trout that were 14" long and Largemouth Bass that were 12"-14" in length also. I have never seen one eat a dead fish. If you get a decoy, get a swan decoy.
Snipe think I know where you are talking about! holly crap there is so much misinformation and people who act like they know.....it is awful. At least most people on here are basing their advice on science, research, and experience or they generally just keep quiet and LEARN.
Years ago, at my main pond, a Great Blue Heron was standing on the shore. We kept getting closer and closer to it in my boat. We were about 15' away, and it still hadn't left, so I threw a dead golden shiner to it, and it ate it.
Herons will destroy a pond and eat your fish, I have had them kill bass and not even eat them just kill them. Destructive birds and they sure are not endangered like vultures they are way to many of them. .17 hmr works nice and quite
New fish as of 2 weeks, and water is below 50. Would be my guess as to the reason for stress. But only seen a few fish like this. Water temps are increasing. So, hopefully that helps.
Saprolegnia or other fungus form. Pretty typical in stressed fish, BG very often at 50 degs. One thing I notice right away is the size of eye on BG, it's very large indicating slow growth/lack of food. (before you got them).
Saprolegnia or other fungus form. Pretty typical in stressed fish, BG very often at 50 degs. One thing I notice right away is the size of eye on BG, it's very large indicating slow growth/lack of food. (before you got them).
Interesting! Is that something that will go away with proper food?
Once a fish has missed growth opportunity, it will never reach true growth potential. It can still grow once food is available, but not to the sizes it would have if proper forage was available from day 1.
Don't worry too much about lost potential and focus your energy on other things. The biggest loss is the length increment of the age. Hatchery fingerlings in the 1-3 sizes are often low RW and even shorter than they would have otherwise been if stocked in a fresh farm pond at 2 months of age. In a hatchery pond, within 45 to 60 days the growth of the new hatch slows dramatically. They are between 1" and 2" at that time. Most people want to buy 1"-3" fingerlings for stocking so they don't try to grow them fast but rather maintain them so they grow slowly. This is the way of industry by and large. Purchasing last years crop for stocking in March kind of ensures you will be buying fish with lost potential.
Buying fish when hatcheries have new crop at 1"-2" in the field will not guarantee that you will get new crop fingerlings. I wish I could say it would. So you will just work with what you have. There is a lot of years ahead of them and so how you take care of them from here will determine their growth path from here. You can still grow them remarkably. Your stocking plan suggests an emphasis for LMB. This is probably where you need to be focused on getting very good fingerlings (young and long). I say young and long because there is going to be a lot of forage in your pond that is too big for new crop 2" LMB to eat. Some of the BG could eat them. So if buying advanced fingerlings there is room for older fingerlings to work their way into your order. As much as possible, you want length that is appropriate for the age of the fingerling.
No reason to buy hatch at 1-2". i pull my fry and stock out in 3 days post-hatch in heavily fertilized ponds to maximize growth rates. At day 35 I pull and put in feed training tanks. The top fish achieve near twice the growth of the other half and after feed training, these go back outside in grow outs full of forage AND supplemental feeding. I won't sell 2-3" fish to stock, doesn't make sense and is BAD business. My fish at 2-3" are FAR from low RW, in fact they are absolute pigs and again, long, skinny fish are not healthy, they have missed something from day 1 and I'm not sure where you get this notion. I've tried and tried to keep an open mind here, but I'm about to just quit posting because this is not good advice given above and apparently my personal experience is just crap. Done for now..
I have no doubts that your fish are of the highest quality that have exhibit good growth and RW. But the fact remains that you are different from most supplier in that you focus on doing just that. But most don't. The problem is that you can't supply everyone. I wish that you could. A lot of folks are going to get less than optimum fingerlings. I didn't like the condition of the fingerlings either ,... AND ... I don't understand why the seller wouldn't tell him to wait until temps were warmer to stock them.
As factual as your comments were, there is nothing he can do about other than take care of what he has. No fish reaches it potential. Ketona Lake, which produced the world record, to fish >4 lbs and numerous >2 lbs without feeding, contained ordinary bluegill. At least according to the Alabama Wildlife folks. They could not get them to grow better than their own selected strains when tested in farm ponds. They had the potential for the pinnacle of greatness, but only in Ketona Lake.
I just don't want the OP to feel discouraged. In the end, he will have a great pond where the fish reach the potentials the environment of his pond (and his management) will allow. What will determine this mostly will be populations and available foods.
I'm still have issues with getting bluegill and the redear to eat the pellets. I feed once per day for 1 second at 1930 at two feeders on either ends of the pond. I get a few BG and RE, but mainly FHM. Nothing like the 4000 BG and 1000 RE I put in the pond a few months ago. But, I did catch a BG on the overflow and he was big and fat! I decided to try and catch a few fish, I quickly caught a BG and he was also big and fat. My guess is that I have alot, and I mean alot of small FHM in the pond from the 100 lbs I added last year. They must be getting their fill of small FHM is my guess.
I scanned back to one of your previous posts and it looks like you were going to start off with Optimal #3 and then switch to Optimal #4. Here's some info on the starters from the Optimal website... With a gradual sinking pellet, the entire water column can be targeted, enabling the weaker fish to get the appropriate nutrients they need and increasing survivability across the population.
If you are still using the Starter #? from Optimal your fish may be eating it below the surface. Switching to a floating JR or BG will likely bring them to the surface.
That's great news B! Did you seem to have much loss from the fish after stocking or did the infections seem to clear up?
What food are you pushing through the feeder?
Are you using a feeding ring with the feeders?
Out of the 4000 BG and 1000 RE I only found maybe 15 - 20 dead fish since the day they were added to the pond. They all have seemed to survive the infection. Have not seen any with the white spots.
I am feeding Optimal, Mark has been great giving me suggestions on feeding. I have #3, #4, Jr, and GB sizes. I bought an entire pallet due to the cost savings.
I have not tried the feeding ring yet, so many other projects are taking up my time. Staining the dock, getting the contractor to do a final grade so I can get seed down. And trying to finish up my shooting range.
I scanned back to one of your previous posts and it looks like you were going to start off with Optimal #3 and then switch to Optimal #4. Here's some info on the starters from the Optimal website... With a gradual sinking pellet, the entire water column can be targeted, enabling the weaker fish to get the appropriate nutrients they need and increasing survivability across the population.
If you are still using the Starter #? from Optimal your fish may be eating it below the surface. Switching to a floating JR or BG will likely bring them to the surface.
I am still using up the #3, and #4. The #4 sinks, and I see GB below the water zipping around after them. I just recently started to add some Jr to the mix.
I had a couple of posts recommending the use of a feeding ring before I got mine in. About a week or two after getting it in I did see some changes in how the fish related to the area we feed from. TH feeders have a great throw pattern and our pond is subject to wind which in turn blows the food whichever direction the wind happens to blow that day.
What we started to see after putting the feeding ring out there was that the fish seem to be holding in area during the day when we aren't feeding. If I am on site and throw some in by hand at the ring....they snatch it right up. I would never have guessed that a 3/4" pvc tube head in place by a couple of bricks on a string would have made such an impact.
Next step for us will be to feed mid-day for sec or two to see if we can get them to take it on a regular basis.
For us, absolutely worth the 30mins to make the ring and set it as we are feeding only floating food at this point. Sinking food probably wouldn't have the same drift problem we experience. Wife even complimented me on the "good idea" which I responded with 100% cudos to the guys on the forum.
Good to hear you didn't have much loss on the fish. Sounds like you are well on your way to being ready for the LMB and HSB that you wanted to put in.
I've never tried to use a feed ring, so no input there.
I have observed that heavily feed trained adult Bluegill actually came off of feed when transplanted into a new body of water that was polluted with fathead minnows of all sizes. I had moved (85) of these Bluegill over, and they were almost off of feed 100% to the point where you didn't see the fish anymore, and we thought we had a total fish kill. They were in there though.
I had a couple of posts recommending the use of a feeding ring before I got mine in. About a week or two after getting it in I did see some changes in how the fish related to the area we feed from. TH feeders have a great throw pattern and our pond is subject to wind which in turn blows the food whichever direction the wind happens to blow that day.
What we started to see after putting the feeding ring out there was that the fish seem to be holding in area during the day when we aren't feeding. If I am on site and throw some in by hand at the ring....they snatch it right up. I would never have guessed that a 3/4" pvc tube head in place by a couple of bricks on a string would have made such an impact.
Next step for us will be to feed mid-day for sec or two to see if we can get them to take it on a regular basis.
For us, absolutely worth the 30mins to make the ring and set it as we are feeding only floating food at this point. Sinking food probably wouldn't have the same drift problem we experience. Wife even complimented me on the "good idea" which I responded with 100% cudos to the guys on the forum.
Good to hear you didn't have much loss on the fish. Sounds like you are well on your way to being ready for the LMB and HSB that you wanted to put in.
Interesting! I will give it a try, as you said its easy to make...
I've never tried to use a feed ring, so no input there.
I have observed that heavily feed trained adult Bluegill actually came off of feed when transplanted into a new body of water that was polluted with fathead minnows of all sizes. I had moved (85) of these Bluegill over, and they were almost off of feed 100% to the point where you didn't see the fish anymore, and we thought we had a total fish kill. They were in there though.
Good input, sounds like the FHM are what are feeding my BG and RE.
