I am getting ready to enlarge my pond by about 1/4 ac. The dirt is going several places, most too far for a dozer to push it. I had a post here couple of years ago (can't find it now), where someone suggested different piece of equipment, with wheels, and scoop in the middle.
The impression I got is, that it can fill up the scoop, drive somewhere else and dump it. It is supposed to be much cheaper than a dozer.

I would like to use this piece of equipment to get the additional area to pond-level, before I bring in the track hoe.

What is this equipment called?

Ed,

Perhaps you are referring to a front-end loader. My back-hoe, as most others also, has a front-end loader, which I use to do exactly as you describe...move dirt in the case where it is faster and easier to move with the loader than the dozer. I use the dozer to cut/push the dirt/clay into a pile and then the loader to carry it to the location, the dam in my case, and then use the dozer to spread and pack at the location. Its a technique that works well for me and makes use of the equipment I have. Both pieces of equipment cost about $10k.

Hi Meadowlark,

$10K? I am getting ready to buy 82hp 1976 MF with loader for $7500. Maybe I am overpaying.

The impression I got from the previous thread was, that this piece of equipment is like those machines that are used to grade the road, except they have kind of a box in the middle.

Thanks,

Ed.

Depending on whether or not you place an hourly value on your labour, you could get a dump bucket for the 3pth of your tractor. You drive along, lower the bucket till it is full, raise it then drive over to where you want it then pull the trip lever. I once dug a shallow pond with one on our old 35hp massey, working after school and week-ends. The pond would have been deeper but it rained a lot that fall(40years ago)and I started to get stuck too often in the clay. If your tractor is 2wd you can probably move more dirt than you would with a FEL on the same tractor. Pat

Ed. I think what you are talking about is a motor scraper .

I think that you are talking about what I call a pan. The dirt is dug with several blades on a chain system and put into a central "pan" then you drive to where the dirt is to be unoaded and reverse the blades thus unloading the dirt

Ed,

The $10k was for a back-hoe with a front end loader. Depending on your needs, the back-hoe is really handy to have along with the front end loader. $7500 for a 76 MF w/82 hp sounds a little on the high side, but if it is in top condition, then maybe not.

Try this link
http://www.gsnet.com/inventory/Heavy_Equipment/Scrapers/100266172_2002_Caterpillar_613C.asp

Not cheap, however. The contractor that we hired to grade a hillside filled these using a front loader, so maybe they are not as effective on sloping or uneven ground.

I have a dirt scoop like Pat described. The nice thing about them is they can be mounted as he stated or reversed so you back into what you want to move. Mine is 24 inches wide cost 200.00 and I was able to dig a area about 30 by 50 by 3 ft deep last summer and move it to the backside of the property with my little 18hp Yanmar 2800.00 used.

Bob

I also have a "pond scoop" for the back of the tractor. You can do a lot with it if you're willing to move a wheelbarrow-sized load of dirt at a time. Other limitations are that it can only go so far (perhaps 5" - 6") below the ground level the tractor tires are on and that dirt can be too hard to be picked up by it (wait for some rain or plow/disc the surface).

I got mine with the intent of digging my pond with it when I had 2-3 months to kill. I stayed employed too successfully to ever come up with the time (and after the pond was dug with a dozer and a trackhoe, I think the time estimate was way small), but it is a great $200 tool for moving dirt. It's really good for french drains or other shallow ditches. I did bend the frame on mine early on while tackling too-hard soil; we straightened it and I welded on an oversized C-channel piece of steel which has kept it straight ever since.

Dang Theo now you have some hard dirt! And I thought mine was bad.

Bob

You may be referring to a scrapper. These
machines are quite large and can be self
powered or pulled by a large tractor or dozer.
They can accumulate sizable amounts of dirt
and relocate it. Scrapper work is much higher than a dozer - about $125 hr.

If you have a decent sized tractor, a scraper is probably the most economical way to go. Check out the following link http://www.sieversequipment.com/ and follow to the Leon and Reynolds websites. A decent sized scraper will cost you $15 - $25K and you'll need about a 200 horsepower tractor to pull it. Might be cheaper to hire someone to do it for around $70 - $80 per hour probably.

Squeeky posted while I was working on mine. Apparently the cost of scrapers varies considerably by area. Mine cost $70 per hour a couple years ago, but cost of fuel and etc. has gone up a lot and the guy shot me a real good deal on everything so probably that too.

Two years ago I bought a 175hp tractor and scraper to pull behind it. I bought the tractor at auction for 18000 and then paid another 3000 in repairs. The scraper would move about ten yards of dirt every ten minutes behind the dam. I did this for about a year and a half on the weekends spending about 2000 in diesal. I could not complete the entire project with the scraper and had to call mike Otto to help me finish the parts that had to be done with a dozer. After the project was finished I sold the tractor for 18000. The cost was my time and the diesal along with the repairs to the tractor. I think that this was probably the cheapest way to complete the job if you have lots of extra time.

Bob, the problem was at least as much hard head as hard dirt. I kept ramming into a hard pile of dirt all afternoon, with the scoop on backwards. I didn't notice I'd bent the frame until I was finished. I think the problem was made worse by having slack on the two lower 3-point hookups; since then I have always filled in the extra space on the lower two hookups with large washers, leaving only 1/8" or so of slack. This prevents the jarring "ka-whump" when the hookups slide and then the tractor momentum hits at the end of the free space.

Nowadays, I have a front-end loader and no longer use the pond scoop to pick up dirt from piles, just for scraping.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Scaper is it, but it doesn't look like it is whole lot of cheaper than a dozer. But it is cheaper than a dozer and a dump truck. I lucked out, and this year's dirt will be placed relatively close to where it comes from. My next pond, in couple of years, will be a different story. It looks like it may be worth buying a used dozer. I guess I better learn how to put together thrown tracks.

Thrown tracks I haven't had yet, but have had just about everything else associated with a used dozer. When I started, I was only going to do one small job and sell it...now I'm hooked and admit that I will keep it for the forseeable future. Its just too much fun to sell it.

I may be building ponds like Johnny Appleseed planted apple trees.

I can see it now, the legend of "Little Larry Pond-Dozer," with his dip-net hat and a pocket full of fish eggs (tilapia, no doubt). Now if I can just work in the Cormorant angle...

You are too much Theo!

LLPD...okay, but whats this dip net thing!

Hey, Theo, you might be able to work in the cormorant angle by showing ML wearing a hard hat with droppings on it.

I just finished having a pond dug with a dirt buggy, it will carrie about 18 yards of dirt per load and was pulled by a 375 horse tractor. Usually the tractor pulls two dirt bugges at the same time but for ponds, only one is needed. My neighbor has six of these rigs an goes all over working on highways and building lakes and leveling land. My two acre pond took two days to build. They have a smaller version of these dirt buggies called Scrapers that can be pulled behind a smaller tractor on the order of 30 horse or so that will carrie about a yard and a half to two yards and it runs off the tractors Hyd. Cost is about four thousand dollars. I sure would like to have one but I don't know if I want one that bad.

Richard,
Can you find a link to the tool you're talking about & post it?

Richard,

Here's a "dump bowl" scraper I've had my eye on for some time.

http://www.hoelscherinc.com/prod_dbscraper.htm

You can see it in action here:

http://www.hoelscherinc.com/indexdirt.htm

Ric,

Look back at the post by Rangersedge, in this thread, from 4-27-05.

Russ

That's a nice piece of eqp!
Thanks!

BOBAD,

Any idea how these would work on uneven ground? Specifically, I'm thinking of a pond bottom with slopes and pulling with a tractor which never has enough front end weight. Maybe with careful planning one could dig such as to minimize those situations and make slopes very gradual, for the most part.

It would be very interesting to hear from someone that has used one of those in pond building.

ML,

My friend just dug a pond a large tractor and a huge 8 yard dump scraper. It took about a week from start to finish. From what I've seen, it's easy to create ridges and trenches with the dump scrapers if you have room to maneuver. You can adjust the cutting depth "on the fly", making it very easy to get creative. With a 4 yard or larger dump scraper and a 125 HP or larger tractor, you can really make the dirt fly. It's the most efficient way to remove dirt from point "A" then transport and dump it at point "B". The implement is always killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

The dump scrapers are also very good at building up levees and constructing roads and dams.