I'll try to keep this short. Our freshwater fishing club is looking at the possibility of hiring a lake manager or at least some consulting. What services can we expect? Meaning, most any pond/lake manager will usually start off by: 1) Taking water samples for evaluation; 2) Surveying current fish population via electrofishing; 3) Recommending corrective stocking plan/harvesting plan; 4) Etc. What can we expect?

Since we are secluded in the south Pacific, logistics are the biggest problem. Instead of flying someone out here, we're hoping we can do the physical tasks here and send samples/findings/reports back to a manager via computer/mail/etc. We will be contacting a few pond managers in the meantime. Thanks for any input. BTW, I have been in contact will Bob and he has been a big help, but I don't want to abuse him when there is good advice from you guys right here.

Let me be the first to say that I am sure I can convince Mr. Lusk to come to your cosy little island, (of course I will need to come too), please just email me your VISA, MasterCard or AMEX number and I will start working on the details. January through March is open now and if there is a Marriott nearby we can probably get it done in 60 days.

Hey RW that's a good question! What can one expect? What are the first few steps we should look for. I too have thought about looking into this and it would be nice if there was something a novice could have as a guidline as to what to look for in a pond/lake manager as you call it. Maybe Greg Grimes will see this and chime in or someone simualr that does what he does. I am sure they could tell us what to expect.

I would only need 10 days and access to a boat for sampling fish in the ocean.

n8ly,

Ok a fishing trip for your services we get that. But you still have not told us what those services are? What should we expect from a pond management guru when they show up at my pond? Someone please give us the top 4 or 5 things to look for? It really is a good question. If for example I had you or Greg Grimes show up at my pond today, I would not know if what he was doing is correct or hodge podge for that matter. Anyone?

RC this is a great question but tough to answer because every lake, owners goals, and managers procedures are different. I will give you an idea of what I do here in Texas. First time out I would do water quality analysis, identify aquatic vegetation, and survey the fish population. Based on what I find and the owners goal I basically outline a plan on what fish to cull out, what to stock, how to contol vegetation, and anything else that needs to be done. I would then get an aeration system and fish feeder installed and get a pallet of fish feed brought over. Basically after that on a monthly or maybe bi-monthly basis I would come by fill the feeder, maintain the aeration system, spot treat vegetation, possibly fertilize, and if we have a nursery pond trap and move over baitfish. I would also act as an agent to find you products you may want such as a dock or pond boat. If it's a large lake I may even host a boy scouts fishing tournament to help cull out fish. Then the following spring I would survey the lake again and make recommendations based on our results from the previous year. On your side I would ask that you enjoy fishing, cull out what is needed, keep a catch record, and let me know if you see something that is different or just out of place.

stbar,
Thank you for your very informative answer. This was the kind of information I was looking for. I certainly can see where different variables such as lake size, fish populations, owners goals, identified problems, etc. will determine a managers course of action. But it looks like you listed some basic steps that should be taken initially.

If n8ly and Greg have experience in this area, I'd appreciate an informative response from these gentlemen as well. Thanks.

STBAR,

Now that's what I am talking about!! Thanks for the response! Very nice. Guys like myself and RW who don't know what you should or shouldn't be doing have no clue and would be at a loss as to what a pond manager was or was not doing right. So this really helps! Wish you were in Arknasas I might want to hire you! Do you know anyone here in Arkansas with your type of services for future reference?

Thanks,

Roadwarriorsvt:

The only thing that I would add to what stbar said is to talk with the pond owner and see if they wanted a bathyspheric map done of the pond. That will help in designing and placing the aeration system. It will also help fine tune the amount of herbacides to use if any are required.

I ran across a pond that was supposed to be 12' with an average depth of close to 8'. Deepest part was 7' with the average depth closer to 4'.

Thanks esshup. Since we are in such a remote location, we may have to do the physical tasks ourselves and hire a manager for consultation purposes.

OK, so this may sound odd, but there is no standard protocol for what I do or how I help people manage lakes and land. When I go to an initial consultation I don't need to sell that lake or pond or property owner a thing, cause the consultation fee takes care of that.

The first thing I do is sit down and talk with the owner for however long needed to gain all of his information about himself, his family, his personality, and then the reason why he called me out. After he is done talking I drill him with a bunch more questions, but all nonchalantly and through the course of normal conversation.

I gather every piece of information about him and then every piece of information about their body of water, the history, the present, and the future.

The pond is the simple thing to figure out, its the how to connect that particular owner intimately to that pond or lake that I figure out.

Then I go collect my data just to confirm that the fish and water quality and vegetation all line up like interpreted from our meeting. Oftentimes the owner and his family are right along for the ride, its entertainment value for them, plus relationship building.

Then I lay out a management plan that is completely customized, fully comprehendable for their capacity and 100% geared for everything they want out of their body of water. I make sure they are completely capable and comfortable with anything that is prescribed. BTW, feeding fish is actually not prescribed very often.

Its all about the owner(s). No standard protocol on what to do or how to do it.

This approach leads to 100% customer satisfaction across the board and more work than I can accomplish in my lifetime. The next 12 months are booked up solid for me and my crew. Only thing we can add are consultations en route on road trips rolling across the midwest.

Agreed n8ly!!

While I am not a "lakes manager" and do not deal much with complete planning of goals and strategies, I'll add that even with the rare client that calls and only wants someone to keep his water "pretty" for them so they don't have to worry or deal with it, by learning what you described in personality and helping them see their possibilities and visions of the water, listening to them naturally builds a passion in that client whether they wanted it or not originally.

Getting more input form other pond managers on this topic will make this thread much more useful. Maybe even make it a candidate for the Archives Section. Choosing a lake/pond manager seems to me very similiar to choosing a girlfriend or wife. Which one can you best get along with, one that best suit your needs, is intelligent, thoughful, considerate and works well within your budget, plus you are content and not aggravated with them at the end of the day.

I make sure I read everything Bill Cody posts. He always has something important to say.

Now I realize he is also a Marriage Counselor.

This seems to be a common occurrence amongst pond owners. When we purchased our property we were told the pond was 30 feet deep. I just assumed that was true. One day I designed a poor man's depth tester (rope with knots at one foot intervals and a weight on the bottom). I paddled around the pond using this contraption and soon found that the pond at it's deepest was only about 17.5 feet deep. During the highest water mark and it may reach 19 to 20 feet but no where near 30 feet.

Do you think that extra ten feet is where Jimmy Hoffa could really be buried?

I suspect that Hoffa found his way to the bottom of a Michigan pond.

Are you implicating JKB in his disappearance?

And he is single ladies....lol

Thanks for the informative response n8ly. I understand that no two ponds may be alike, no two pond owners and his goals may be alike either, so a managers course of action may not be alike. I was just wanting to know some of the basics of what could be done when hiring a pond/lake manager. Hopefully this thread will help others when shopping around for a pond manager and what we may expect.

Here's the way I do things.
First, I spend time trying figure out the "it". I preach this to my guys over and over. What is "it"?
I'll have a lengthy conversation with the potential client and through that discussion begin to find out what the mission is. What are his goals? Often times, the potential client doesn't really have a clear cut idea of what those goals are, so I'll ask questions directed at creating thought, followed by discussion, as to what the client's vision is...and that leads to a better definition as to what the goals are.
For example, I'd ask Roadwarrior questions like this...."You want to improve your lake in Hawaii. In your mind's eye, tell me what the lake would be like, if you had it your way." Then, he would respond accordingly like, "We catch some fairly good peacock bass, but the largemouth bass are few, and thin. If we could go out on any given day and catch 30-35 healthy largemouth bass up to 6 or 8 pound, with a chance at double-digit fish, we would be happy." That helps me understand the fisheries goals. Next, I'd want to have a much better understanding of more experiential things such as, "We also want to enjoy the lake and make sure that the fish, plants, animals...everything that should be there, is there."
Then, I'd ask questions about how he does things. Is there a ranch manager, does he own equipment such as tractors, boats...stuff like that to see what sorts of resources he has and how he thinks for his management style.
I'll ask about his family, his career, his faith and get as personal as I think I need to in order to have a clear understanding of who he is, what he believes, what he wants and then I begin to come to a conclusion about what I might be able to do to help.
THEN, I begin talking about the lake and my opinion as to what needs to be done to get baseline information about it, in order to design a custom management strategy.
At that time, we begin talking about money, budget, expectations of each other and what kind of results, based on the time line the client wants.
For this process, I charge an initial consulting fee. That fee is based on how long it will take to travel to and from and how much time the consultation will take, and how long it will take me to produce an initial report and proposal for services to create the management strategy.
Travel expenses are figured in additionally.
For example, if Fred can get me into his suitcase to Hawaii, the airfare will be considerably less expensive...just that $25 for the baggage, plus a fine for overweight.
Seriously...I charge $1,000 per day for my services, plus freight.

Here's a fundamental template how I do what I do.

First consultation...
1) Establish clear cut goals.
2) Learn about the client and his "vision".
3) Discuss what I can do to be of best service.
4) Talk about his resources, including the lake, his land, his pocketbook..a budget, and a time frame as to what he expects.
5) Define the next step, such as evaluating the lake, its water, its inhabitants, its habitat, food chain, the fishery...all that fisheries biologist stuff.
6) Give a price to move to the next step.

Second consultation is a gathering of data for a baseline. That's where we actually evaluate the lake, electrofish...or use whatever sampling techniques best suited for that particular situation. We look at the lake as a whole and then do our best to get a breakdown of all the elements...water quality, fertility, cover, structure...habitat stuff.

Next, having the baseline information and data, with a clear understanding of the goals, we design a custom management strategy/plan for the client to manage his lake at the level that best suits his needs, timeline and expectations.

At that point, we create a timeline with a line-by-line itemized cost projection in the report and proposal for management.

That's where we start looking at things like regular water quality analysis, fish feeders, stocking fish, aeration, vegatation management...whatever the client, my biologist or I agree on.

Then, it goes on the calendar, we get busy and get the day to day tasks done, based on what that client wants and expects. As we do our work, we communicate both before and after a visit to the property. We'll tell the client when we plan to be there..and if he wants to meet us there, we sync our schedule with his...and then a follow up report about what all was accomplished. Often, this follow up includes digital photos of what we saw.

That's the fundamental approach as how we do what we do. Each one is custom, based on that client and his lake.

We can act in an advisory capacity, if the client is best served that way, or we'll design everything from the lake to the boathouse to the tackle lockers, if he wants.

Each task is charged based on several things. Time, cost and travel.

That's our core business model.

Thanks Bob for that detailed informative response. I'm sure this to, will help novice pond owners get on the right track to picking a pond manager. This is the type of information one can expect on the leading pond management website in the nation,.... not that I'm not interested in what happened to Jimmy Hoffa! Haha!

I had always suspected Bill to be a genius.
This post confirms it.

Whoa great info. Not much else I can add after Bob's comments. Sorry I have missed PB. We have been on vacation where I sank our boat so been a bad week luckily all are ok.
This next week we have the PGA Championship so lots to do to keep the ponds on the course looking good.

Here is what we actually state we do for our "lake audit".

The following covers all of the services included in the elctrofishing survey:
• All fish that are sampled are weighed and measured.
• Determination of predator to prey balance
• Disease diagnosis
• Total species abundance
• Identification of any undesirable species present
• Determination of the overall health of the fishery
• Collected largemouth bass will be weighed and measured to provide us with a relative weight (Wr) index. The Wr compares the standard weight of a bass at a given length to the actual weight of the collected bass at the same length. This parameter determines the “plumpness” of the specimens.
• Remove any undesirable or over abundant species.
• Water quality analysis will be conducted for several important water quality parameters. Dissolved oxygen (DO) is measured using an YSI oxygen meter. Hardness and Alkalinity are measured using a digital titrator. A secchi disk, portable pH meter, and portable conductivity meter are used to measure visibility, pH, and conductivity, respectively.
• A site study will be conducted on the physical characteristics of the lake. Any aquatic weeds or algae issues will be identified, observations in regards to the dam and outlet pipe integrity, and fish habitat availability. Maximum depth and average depth will be determined. Satellite imagery is used to accurately report surface acres of the lake.
• A management report will be submitted with detail analysis of the fishery based on the data collected. The report will explain the methods used, background and specific explanations of the results in written and tabulated/graph format. Detailed management recommendations for supplemental stocking strategies, harvesting rates and sizes of over-abundant/competitive species, supplemental feeding recommendations, and lime application and fertilization recommendations. Recommendation will also be submitted with regards any dam/outlet repair, fish habitat enhancement, and/or aquatic weed control. The management report will be submitted in a Power-Point format.
• Additional Services available the following:
o Age/Growth Study: The otolith (ear-bone) will be removed from an adequate sample size of fish to determine the age of the fish. The ages of the fish along with length and weights will be submitted to provide valuable insight into their growth rate and potential.
o Necropsy: All fish will visually be observed for external parasites. In addition to this we will exam the guts of sacrificed fish for the presence or absence of parasite, intestinal worms, flukes, etc. If fish show poor body condition this may provide us some answers.
o Fish Tagging: We will tag up to 50 bass with numbered tags to track growth of those fish. All data (tag number, weight and length) will be submitted in the report to monitor their growth.

Greg,

Do you have a base price or something close to what something like this would cost? Lets say I wanted you to come and do everything you just outlined above. How long would that take on a 1 acre pond and what would be your price for said work above? I realize some pricing can change but what would be your best close estimate?


Thanks,

Yes, great information, for those of us that hope to be in the pond management some day too!!

Thanks to all and please keep this info comeing.

We charge $600 for the lake audit plus travel and try to combine jobs when possible to save customer travel charge. Usually the "shocking portion" for a 1 acre pond is less than 30 mins but onsite about 3-4 hours to discuss the things Nate and Bob spoke about. Data crunching and report is about another 3 hours depending on fish collected, much more time if Matt does some fish ages.
We have averaged over 80 shocks/yr for the past three years.

This has turned into quite a valuable thread for a new pond owner. I appreciate all the input.

fyi this $600 charge is for up to about 10 acres then charge little more for time involved on bigger projects. Hope the info can be of assistance. It has taken us years of work to get the data collection down to useable data set on exactly what we need to learn from the fishery.

Greg thanks a bunch for your input on this. It does give us new guys something to at least go by in case we do get the money to have something like that done! I may call on you when I get ready and try and see when your going to be in my neck of the woods.

Thanks,

You sunk your boat?

Maybe Greg should have his wife answer that one.......

Let me know when the sunken boat thread with pics is posted.

There will be no pics of the sunken boat and no more stories. Trying to forget the dumb move I pulled is already hard enough. Sorry Nate after a nice towing bill the boat was salvaged from ocean floor so no GPS location for your grouper catch, sorry to disappoint you.

I have learned my lesson on risk. It was neccesary to sink the boat to teach my thick head to think about things more clearly or simply listen to the wife.

WIth full repairs complete I will have pics of new improved boat. That is my postivie spin now quit hijacking a perfectly good thread.

Glad you're okay Greg. I dolphined my "new" spray barge in a clients pond spraying the last of an Alum/lime application....I went to hit neutral on the controls and accidentally went full throttle with the front of the boat already partially submerged from the liquid in the mixing tanks....I bent the rods on both brand new trash pumps when I instantly went 3 feet under in the front...Good thing I could return them for "any" reason.

PS...it was the boats maiden voyage...lol

Just for Greg (and no more thread-hijacking here) > Boat Sinking Adventures

Bob,

I distinctly recall meeting a lake manager that lived and worked in Hawaii during the first and second PondBoss conferences. I remember it so vividly because it was so unique. If you have registration records from those first two conferences, you can probably find his contact information, assuming he's still around.

Good memory Trent. Yes, I've learned that there was a lake manager on island. He was from Kentucky, but I found out from our DLNR that he is no longer available. Apparently no one enlisted his services for our lake. I think he was hired to help map out our freshwater streams and that was it. What a missed opportunity to.