Ok we have been fishing a creek on some land my father just purchased and have caught many fish so far. BG, GSF, BH, LMB, Long Ear Sunfish.

My question is will the fish make it through the winter in the creek or should we expect them to die off?

The reason I ask is we have kept some and released some, but if they are going to die anyway I would rather take them out to eat or move to another BOW.

Any thoughts or concerns?

Without knowing a lot of information, I would say that there is a 99%
chance that they will live thru the winter - unless the creek goes dry......

I guess more information would help.

The creek has dropped in depth a bit and does not move at this time.

It has many pockets of water the fish hang out in and I would guess they are not more than 3 feet, but without wading through it I am not for certain.

I do know that one area you could see the LMB just swimming around while we were up on the hill above the creek.

We then had to try to fish for them and you could watch them come out and hit the minnows just as you threw them in the water.

I was just concerned about ice cover and how much water depth they would need.

We did not want to take everything we caught since we enjoy fishing and with them being trapped in the wholes they tend to bite frequently.

But with the concern of ice over and die off, plus once spring comes back and the rains start I am sure many of them will swim up stream and be gone for ever anyway and a new generation will take there place.

You can see were the water level gets after a hard rain, it changes from about 1-2 feet up to as much as 8 feet when flowing.

Thanks

Generally, they should live through the winter in the creek.

So what factors would I need to look for that may cause them to die?

Would it be depth, ice, water flow, etc.?

Food source should not be an issue.

I do know that some areas are only about 1 foot deep.

I would agree on depth and water flow.

That is what I am concerned with is there a minimum they should need of one or the other or both?

If I can get out in the next week or so I may try to wade through the pools and see how deep they are, otherwise it will be next spring or summer when it warms again.

I wouldn't do anything if I was in your shoes. The fish are going to be fine unless something extreme and probably out of the ordinary happens. Lower water levels due to a dry season are not likely going to be much of a factor. Seriously, don't worry about it and like the other seriously experienced folks here have already said, nothing is going to happen - the fishing will still be there in spring. If you just can't help yourself from doing something, though, catch a few and toss them into your ponds, being mindful of course of all the warnings that are posted here about putting wild fish into your ponds. 'Nuff said!

Be careful, MRHELLO. Still water runs deep... Take a PFD with you.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all of the fish in that creek are going to die.

Nate,

Since you are one of the few that think this way would you mind elaborating why you believe they will die?

I am not disagreeing with you but rather would like the factors causing them to die off and what if anything could be done to help them.

Like I said not that big of an issue since I need a few extra bass in my ponds, but they are also healthy and big enough to eat as well.

I have the option of moving them to a pond, lake, my table etc. so that was not the concern but rather if they were going to die anyway I would assume catch as many as I can and eat them.

I also think the creek will trap more in the spring as well once it flows through there at the 5-8 feet depth it does.

I will be anxiously awaiting you expert advice.

Thanks

I'm pretty sure Nate was referring to the inevitable end of life for all living things, mrhello! He is right - EVENTUALLY, all of those fish ARE going to die!

Nate,

Is that what you meant, just being funny, or were you serious about a winter kill.

Just like to have any and all opinions here as to if the fish will die or should be removed or not.

Does anyone else have shallow creeks with pockets of water they can explain there winter exeriences with?

Thanks

We have a relatively shallow creek as well, only inches deep in spots, but also pools of over 4 feet deep. Fish live year round, though nothing large. A decent length cat was caught out of it last year, but it was very skinny and unhealthy looking.

Do you think the fish spawn in there or get trapped?

I may just leave them alone and see what happens.

I just think if it freezes over they would die with it being so shallow. All I know is there are some bass in there in the 2-3 pound range maybe larger.

I lost a nice one and have yet to get it again.

I would just hate for it to die.

Did you stock those 3 lb LMB? If you have any fish in there that you did not stock then you have a spawning population.

Why do you say that Nate? He's too far south for a good freeze. It sounds like whatever's in there survived last winter by their age, so why not this winter?

I believe Nate was being sarcastic... All things die eventually!

Anyways, we have a creek behind our hunting cabin. For the most part, by about this time of year the fishy inhabitants head down the creek and back to the Potomac River to over winter. It's not that they wouldn't survive, but the Potomac is lower gradient and therefore, they burn less energy in the lean winter months. Usually by late April our fishy friends have migrated back up the creek. Chain pickerel seem to stick around year round and the trout we stock if we have holder overs will usually stick around as well. I wouldn't stress it... Fish have evolved to live in different water body types and the ones in your creek will probably be just fine.

I was thinking Nate was being sarcastic, but just wanted him to clarify. I really have no idea, otherwise if I knew I would not have come here.

I guess it really is not that big of a deal either way.

Like I said I probably will not make it anyway to fish it, but if they were to die I would do my best to get there.

I guess my other concern was to over fish it and not have any fish in there next spring.

Another question would be when the water in up in the creek and flowing rapidly, what are the odds of the fish to move up and down it and getting trapped in different holes or new fish moving in?

I am really surprised that we have not seen any Crappie in the creek.

I was hoping to see some warmouths, rock bass, or small mouth bass, but no luck yet.

I think there are some sort of Darters and creek shiners of some sort. The shiners were schooled together and of course I left my net in the truck. I would have loved to caught some just to see what they were. If they are still around I may try to get some pictures and post them here.

Maybe next spring.

The only time I see crappies in smaller to medium sized rivers is when their is a reservoir up stream that they wash out of. Otherwise, they tend to be a large or huge river type fish...

All depends on the habitat, particularly sedimentation if SMB will be present. Rock bass usually require very cool waters to compete. I am sure you probably have at least a couple species of darter and several species of cyprinids present in that creek. The creek behind my hunting cabin, I have documented 4 species of darter, a sculpin and several species of cyprinid.

Yes, when the water is moving, fish will move up and down the creek. That is why there is no real point in my father stocking or trying to manage our 400 yard stretch of it... What is there today, may not be tomorrow...

What is a cyprinid?

We do not get too much rain this time of year so I would not expect them to leave that is why I was considering catching as many as I could and just let nature restock in the spring when the rains come.

But who knows it may never rain again to get the water hig entou for fish to move in and out and then I would have a creek with nothing.
Thanks

Cyprinidae

MRHELLO, most likely, there are other 'predators' catching fish out of that creek besides yourself. Take the fish if you want, or leave them. They'll be fine. If you take them, other fish will take their place in the creek, sooner than later.

yea, sorry for jumping in so late, but definitely sarcastic. You do bring up a very good valid point definitely worthy of discussing and i would tend to strongly agree with Sunil (for this and most likely only this post...)

Those fish if they are over 2 lbs definitely are several years old. I doubt however if those same fish have been born and raised in your zone and I also doubt those are your broodstock for future generations. If it were my personal pond I would most definitely put some river genetic bass in as some sort of experiment. I personally wouldnt eat them not because of safety, but rather I have an abundance of other fish for eating and not an abundance of 2 lb river bass. If you dont transplant them or eat them, something or somebody else will eventually, but I dont think they are just going to die and be wasted.

Thanks (I think).

I guess I didnt have to go quite so over the top with my (parenthesis) notation. Your a big boy though, suck it up and dish something back out if needed to help you feel better.

So bitter. Why?

Your blatant efforts to avoid my Arm Wrestling and Bench Pressing Competition at PB III were duly noted.

Sunil,
Not bitter just geniously owning you mentally online. I will stick to my strong suits of online mental abuse and let Justin take care of you physically during the upcoming arm wrestling match in April. Grimes thinks that justin is the brains of the operation, but really he is the braun. I will blatantly avoid your competition again this year as well at the conference. I am a lover not a fighter.

No more soup for you.

Sunil seems surprisingly sober and introspective today. Isn't Rainman there yet?

Bing

If that's the case, we'll be working on his "disposition" just hours from now!

I'm 'working' now at the Knights Inn. It's amazing what $45.00 per night doesn't get you these days.

Thank your lucky stars you are not spending the night at the Villa Del Abbey in Salinas, Puerto Rico... and it was much more than 45/nt 23 years ago.

I actually tried to sleep in a plastic desk chair because it was the only thing not STICKY!!! never took my shoes off, and, NO WAY was I going to use the "facilities". It was sickening gross, and I tried to leave. They lock the gates at 10 pm, and I was stuck till morning.

Yikes. At that price, did they provide you a hazmat suit or did you bring your own?

I would have freaked out, no doubt. I worked in hotel management for 7 years and it turned me into a bit of a germaphobe. Ignorance is most definitely bliss when it comes to staying in hotels.

Well thanks from the advice, and I have put about 5 of them in my pond so far, will probably wait until next spring or fall to add more, just to see if they happen to spawn.

But since I addes some F1 LMB last December, if any of them survived they should spawn next spring as well so I may have either one or a hybrid of River\F1 LMB.

I have considered getting a few Northern LMB as well just for a mix.

Any thoughts on that?

What about darters, could or should they be moved to a pond?

I'm having a tough time really understanding what you are looking for here, I think. The fish in the creek survived on their own prior to you taking ownership of the land, so there is obviously no need to move the fish to your pond for any reason other than just wanting to do so. If you are cool with the idea that there's a chance they could carry parasites or other unwanted stuff into your pond and maybe impact your purchased fish, then go for it. If you aren't comfortable with that chance, then I say don't go for it. The reality is that if you want to add the fish just for fun, then you need to do it and watch how the experiment pans out for you. It might actually be a fun way to add to your pond's diversity and could lead to some fun time with your kids. If you are asking whether you should do so to ensure the fish survive the winter, my feeling is that it's an unequivocal no. Again, they survived just fine before you owned the place and will survive just fine if you never do anything to them.

Hi,
Today I went to a small creek and caught 4 fish. The creek is very small. I caught like a 3 inch long fish and 3 1 inch fish.Can I keep them in my community tank

http://www.pondboss.com/articles/Bucket-Biology-Stock-Fish-Ponds-Properly

The main question I had was about the fish making it through the winter or not.

I am sure most would make it but that does not mean they will not leave anyway when the water is up correct.

Nor does that mean new fish will not be trapped as well.

So I guess this just leaves me to decide if I want to fish and keep them then fine if not throw them back.


Now onto the thought of adding some fish from another pond, lake, creek, etc., what are some things to worry about?

I hear people say you can transfer parasites, disease, etc., but have yet to find examples.

Does anyone have, or is there a post on here with a list of items like parasites, diseases, plants, etc. that could be moved and why they are a problem.

I would just like to know some of these, I am aware of the grubs that snails host but have not heard of other issues.

Also is there really a River Bass?

I was always under the impression of the Northern and Florida strains and that was it.

You can easily transfer parasites from one body of water to another. I have done it before. It sucks...

Gflo gave you a pretty pointed illustration of the pain this can cause. I'm not a fish biologist, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (I did a couple of years ago, but that's my most recent experience), so I can't really give you a sense of what parasites/bacteria/etc you might bring in. All I know is that I work hard enough at managing my ponds that I don't want to deal with things that I can at least have some level of control over, and parasites, etc. are one of those things I can at least try to control. From my reading here, some diseases can really decimate your fish population, some in varying degrees of painful severity for the fish. To me, it's just not worth it. Is the chance small? I don't really know, but perhaps. Still, it's not worth it to me to jeopardize my paid-for fish.

As to plants, etc, consider what you could be facing. Think of the issues you're facing right now with your various ponds and the vegetation that you've got and that you've asked questions about since joining the forum. Now ask yourself if you really want to take on yet another challenge that is going to utilize more of your resources that you'd like to dedicate to things like fish, feeders, aeration, getting aquatic plants under control. Is it worth your time and resources to add yet another potential problem to any of your ponds?

Just some stuff to think about. None of the bad things may ever come to pass, but then again, they might. That's the reason for the conservative approach that I take with my ponds.

I have a eurasian water milfoil problem in my pond. I attribute it to moving GSH from a local BOW to the pond.

Now you've got one example of a parasite and one of a plant getting introduced.

Any species of bass living in a river is a river bass...

So how big do river bass get and is there anywhere to find information on them?

They sure seem like some of the healthiest fish I have seen in a while plus fight well.




Do you know what parasite you transfered and can you trace it back to which body of water?

What has it done to your pond?

MRHELLO, this is not the only source of information on fish in general. The internet is an amazing thing. Utilize a search engine such as Google or Yahoo! and type in things you are interested in... You'd be amazed at what you find. For example, using the Yahoo! search engine and typing in "river bass" this web site came up near the top, http://www.ehow.com/bass-river/ Pretty simple... Try it!

Sometimes I think you take things too literally. For example my comment, "any species of bass living in a river is a river bass." Read the comment again, and a second and then a third time. Grasp the full meaning... A river bass is not a unique species of fish. A smallmouth, a largemouth, a rock, a spotted, a hybrid striped bass can all be river bass if they live in a river!

In general, bass living in rivers do not grow as large as their lake living buddies. They have to fight currents their whole life. This takes energy that could otherwise be put into growth. However, in my experience, pound for pound bass living in rivers tend to be better fighters.

I am not sure I can think of a species of parasite that couldn't be transferred by taking wild fish from a river and placing them into your pond. You mix infected fish with those in your pond and well, you're pretty darn sure to infect your pond fish as well. Pretty simple concept...

Well thanks guys for the help, I guess I will have to wait and see what happens.

I have already moved 5 LMB to my pond since I think the small ones I stocked were eaten by GSF.

I just wish I would have tagged them so I could have kept records as to how the change in environment worked for them, plus as many GSF that are in there, they may look like Footballs if I ever catch one.

I hope to get some pictures of the creek so I can post hem on here to show you what I am talking about.

Thanks

Well after the 16 inches of snow we just got and the below temps that are coming I feel the creek may be empty of fish come thaw time (not to mention my pond that I just stocked a year ago).

I guess we will just have to hope for some heavy rain in the spring to allow new ones to swim up into the creek and get trapped.

My father has been working on his place and he said the creek was full of minnows. Not sure what type they are but he said there were 100's if not 1000's in there.

If the rain does not make it too muddy, I may try to get down there and net some up to take a pic and get your advice as to what they are and if they would work in a pond setting or not.

What type of stream is this? Where does it come from and where does it go? Pretty much any fish in a stram has the potential to be migratory, as others have said. The only reason I see to think the fish would disappear would be if this is an extrordinarily small stream that only received fish fish from a flooded source somewhere up stream. I don't have much experience with warmwater streams but it's amazing the conditions that native brook trout can live through and they're one of the most sensitive fish I know of. During the summers some of the streams around here dry up to just a few pools and rocksbut the fish survive, and conditions are equally if not more brutal in winter if it's cold and dry, but they survive. Can it put a dent in populations? Yes, but nature has a way of working things out if people don't get too much in the way. If these fish are a population that's been there a long time, they'll probably make it. One thing you could do if you're super concerned is build some small dams out of rocks and or logs to deepen the holes the fish ore most often found in.

I will have to check to see where it comes from, but I do know it dumps into a much larger creek if not the main river.

So I am sure during the spring may fish swim up through it when the water is flowing. We plan to catch some of this fresh water the spring and see what types of fish bite then.

Will be looking for some catfish and anything else that will hit some works in moving water. May even set some rigs out with GSF on them to see if there are any takers.

Well we have been to the creek a few times and have not had any luck, so either they have not started to bite yet, or there may have been a fish kill last winter.

Since we had 21 below (not too common here) it may have taken its toll on the creek fish.

Just looking for some thoughts.

Thanks

They swam away to other areas of the creek would be my guess. That's the crazy thing about a body of water that doesn't have 4 sides - the fish have unlimited mobility in at least two directions!

It often takes a while for fish to migrate back up into smaller tributaries. Be patient...

The thing with this creek is that must of it does have 4 sides to speak. It really is not a full creek most of the time, but about 3-4 pools of water that may be up to 3-4 feet deep.

I am sure there are some there, but I bet many died with the winter we had this year.

I know about 15 years ago we had a bad winter, and you could see fish frozen in the ice in a couple of ponds. (I know what the heck was I doing on the pond, could have fallen in)

Either way I want to try again now to see if we can pick up some sunfish since they are starting to spawn. I hope there are some redbreast, warmouth, or rock bass in the creek. It is neat to see the different fish in creeks as compared to must of the dirty lakes we have around here.

Anyone familiar with the types of fish in Oklahoma creeks and streams?

Yep! If you do some reading here I believe all your questions will be answered pertaining to your stream.

Well if the 30 below temps did not kill them this past winter, the nice 115 degrees have.

The creek is pretty much dried up with like 1-3 small holes that are full of algea so thick you could walk across it.

Sure is a shame as there were some nice fish in the creek.

Now I wish I would have just kept more that I caught out of it.