Ok guys, over the fall/winter I plan to add some trees around my new TBP. And to water them do you think there is a small water pump system that could be powered by a battery or small gas engine that could pump water from the pond to a near by tree. If the tree was say 50ft tops from that water line.

Anyone have any experience with something like this? I would load my 500 gal tank onto a truck and water them that way but I want to plant some trees where it may be hard to get a truck with all that water to. So I was thinking about somthing that could fit in my MULE atv and do the job.

Any Ideas appreciated or links to such a system.

Im trying to cut corners from the 5gal bucket method of watering.

Many to choose from take your pick. If you already have a small generator you could get away with a submersible electric for real cheap. I see a small gas powered for 169$
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/s...matchallpartial

Hey Jake,PM sent.

Well FWIW... We bought about a hundred pines last spring that were 10 to 15 foot tall and had them transplanted. After doing some research, we bought a Honda gas water pump and a whole lot of hoses. It is a 2" pump with the outflow split into two water hoses via some fittings. We don't crank it up full blast; but it seems to work pretty well. It really isn't that big or heavy. We haul it to the pond with a Rhino. Probably have about 500 feet each of 5/8" and 3/4" hose. Am amazed at how much more water the 3/4" hose seems to put out. Also, amazed at how noticable the extra weight of that hose (full) is when moving them. Overall, I think it was a good choice.

thanks for help guys.

Hey guys, I'm opening this old topic becuase I finally planted fruit trees in my yard as opposed to my pond. Look how time passes I wanted to do this fall of 09 here is it almost spring 11 and just now getting it done, they could be full blown fruit trees by now had I not put it off. Im still working on planting some around my pond!

Anyway I decided to plant a small orchard of fruit trees at my house, 18 to be exact. Now I am back to the problem of watering them. I really want to get water down deep to promote root growth and not waste so much water.

What do you guys think about using a small piece of PVC (vertically) down to the root ball when or just after planting and drilling small holes in it to let water out then attach a 5 gal bucket topside as a reservior. Would it clog up and actually let dirt in? would it seep out and spread as needed? would it saturate more down or out? Should I just stick to watering with a water hose or dripline? There is a commercial product listed just like this I am describing but its more of a spike than a PVC pipe, its cheap I could just go with it if you guys think the concept works. Im really trying to treat these trees like kings. I should probably ask this on a gardening forum, but I feel like most of you would know something about this.

any advice appreciated as always!

Roots would definately clog the holes. When i worked for the water company, A line could have a hairline crack in it and roots would grow through it completely filling 8-10" drains pretty unreal looks like a giant hard ball of rooty white hair..

There are drip waterers that push into the black plastic tubing. Talk to any local tree nursery and they will be able to educate you on the proper use, and if not sell you what you need, tell you where to get it at a good price.

I made dirt rings that were about 1' larger in dia than the drip line of the canopy on the trees that I planted. About a 6" high dirt ring. I filled up the ring with water 2x a week (or more if hot and dry) and just let it naturally seep down into the ground. I also hit the inside of the rings with roundup to keep any grass or weeds from competing with the trees. Worked great.

Like Rainman suggested, I'm installing a drip system this year and will put it on a timer.

Ok thanks guys, I have a couple new ideas and will look into the drip system. esshup, that is how I have done it in the past and they are still alive, so maybe I need to stick with that method.

I grow ornamental trees for wholesale and use my pond extensively for irrigation. Drip is the only way to go if you have alot of trees, poly pipe and the components are cheap and it will save you many hours of work. I would highly recommend a "disc filter" with the appropriate micron rating, they are much easier to clean than a mesh filter. (don't try and save pennies on the filter). I purchase most of my supplies from www.dripworksusa.com as they carry a wide variety of items and are very reasonably priced.

arond, thanks for the link. I knew where to get the stuff cheap when I lived in So. Cal., but nobody around here has it in bulk. All I need is the emitters, timer & valve and I'm set.

thanks arond, PM sent

Depending on how pro-active you need the system to be and for how long, I use a 5 gallon bucket with a couple of very small holes drilled in the bottom. For the first year, I fill the bucket every couple days and let it seep out. Move the bucket every few days.
Obviously this won't do much good for a long term setup, but I have kept many "newborns" alive through droughts by keeping my hands on. It also gives you input whenever you water as to how the plantlife is doing.

buzz

I see you don't want to go this route, but setting up even a temp system can get pricey.

Thanks buzz, thats what I was first planning on then started learning about other options. still trying to research and gather experience about what ways are the best.

jakeb, good advice from these guys. I just installed a drip system to 480 new & one year-old pecans. Used the 5 gallon bucket "poor-mans" drip for the first year on 240 trees. It works ok, but the holes in the bucket clog up with debrie, so I had to get off the tractor at every tree to clean them out. arond spoke to using pond water to drip irrigate his nursery & how to use a very good filter. That's true because the algae will be a big issue clogging up the drip system. If you go that route, you will need an injection system so you run chlorine through the emmiters. I am using well water, so algae isn't really a problem. I used a large, self flushing mesh filter. I did install a Dosmatic injector so that I can routinely acidify the well water(pH 8.9)that's going to the irrigation system with sulfuric acid..

Great thanks David, the more I read the more im moving to drip system! I will be using well water. ONe question, how many emitters per tree and do you know how many GPH the emitters give off? I need to find out just how much water my well puts off. But considering it will be adequate how many emmiters putting out how much for how long? I guess I can just check the soil the first few times I run it.

Thanks and anymore info would be great!

jakeb, you can use either individual emitters http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=626 or tubing with built-in tubing http://www.netafimusa.com/landscape/products/techlinecv
I planted 100 black walnuts 2 years ago and used the individual emitters. I used one per tree(the trees were seedlings), but now find it difficult to expand the number of emitters because of the way I layed out the polytube. I used the netafim drip tubing on the pecans(4-6 feet tall). I teed off the lateral line with blank tubing, then connected the emitter tubing & made a half circle around the tree. The emitter tubing has .9 gal/hr emitters on 18" spacing. It will be easy to add emitter tubing as the trees grow..du

Jakeb,

I've spent several years working with irrigation systems. A decent drip system would be the way to go with this. I used to take a hard line on drip emitters as you really couldn't see if they were working unless you were on top of them. There's something about being able to see the spray heads getting everything wet... you just know they're working.

Proper installation really helps to mitigate this fear, plus they're pretty dang reliable to begin with.

Below are some Suggestions for those DYI folks out there. There are no hydraulic calculations in here, just some simple suggestions that should provide reasonable capacity for most needs, given a properly protected source with reasonable pressure:

Include appropriate backflow prevention to keep from contaminating your water supply or public water supplies. Believe me there are lots of sad stories out there relating to this issue, and it is much easier than you may think to have an accident which could harm many people. Plus it is not that expensive or complicated to do it properly.

Get a controller - you don't need to be thinking about turning it on manually - it sucks when you forget, and/or forget to turn it off. They are really quite inexpensive for basic functionality.

Consider investing in a 2 wire system if you think you'll need multiple, far-off valves so that you don't need the expense of running 1 wire per valve. Additionally 2 wire systems are much easier to upgrade, but they cost more like all good things do. Drip provides so much capacity (for a given supply) due to the MUCH slower application rate, most can accomplish their irrigation with just a few valves anyway.

Piping and Valves: Dig a 6" trench for, and run, a 1" PVC sched 40 pipe (for durability) as your mainline. Run it in a loop that extends from the output of the water source on a course that passes near the areas that you intend to irrigate, then back to the source. In a pinch you could simply run a pipe from the source to the irrigation areas without the return loop. The loop helps to equalize the pressure, and makes upgrades easier.

Your wires (one white "common" and one red one for each valve) should be placed in the trench directly under the mainline with a service loop at each valve location to allow enough slack in the wire to reach and hook up to each valve. There are 2 wires sticking out of the top of the selenoid on the electronic valves (doesn't matter which one hooks to white or red, just don't hook them together!). Leave about 18" extra for red, which equates to 36" for the white, since it doubles back to go to the next valve. Get some wire nuts and size matched waterproof encasements filled with grease (typically orange or yellow), connect the wires to the selenoid, sink the wirenuts into the grease and snap the encasement closed.

At each watering area ("zone") cut the mainline and install a 'T' to stub out for the valve. Add a 10+" section of pipe extending towards the water zone, which then is cemented into the 1" electronic selenoid valve - I just use the 'slip fit' type to keep it simple, but some use threaded for easier service. You now have a "stubbed out" valve at each irrigation zone. Note that the area under the valve should be excavated to about 10" to fit a small valve box/cover.

Extend the output of each valve towards the zone and install a T with 2 bushings that accept 1/2" drip tubing. Then run the drip tubing in a loop around the irrigation zone and back to the vacant side of the T. If you run the tube close to the tree/plant then you simply have to press the emitter barb through the wall of the 1/2" tube near the base of the tree. If not, insert a barb which accepts 1/4" pipe and run that to the proper location and install the emitter at the end of the pipe. Another option is to install the emitter directly into the 1/2" pipe then install a 1/4" pipe from the emitter to the plant. Depending on how much activity the area will see, you may want to fasten the 1/2" and perhaps the 1/4" tubes into the ground with landscape staples.

If using landscape fabric and/or mulch, install the drip tubing and emitters after the fabric is installed and before the mulch - otherwise you'll have to tear up all that fabric to get to the tubing for mods.

Slow application is much preferred due to evaporation loss and run-off considerations. In general it is good to have 4-5 emitters for the largest tree in the zone. That way you can easily scale back for smaller plants in the same zone, without having to buy all kinds of unusual sizes.

For example lets say the largest tree in the zone needs 10g per week. A readily available drip emitter puts out 2GPH, so a single emitter would take 5hrs to properly irrigate the tree. If you used 5 ea of the 2GPH emitters you could water the tree in a resonable 1hr. Plus, on the same zone with the same duration you could use a single emitter for a small plant which requires 2g per week., Since having multiple emitters provides redundancy in case one gets clogged, having 5 of them would be a good thing for the trees. To provide redundancy for the smaller plants, you would be able use 2ea 1gph emitters, which are also readily available. Too many words for this simple idea.

Hope this helps someone.

KDO

KDO (or anyone)

For a drip system in a climate that freezes, that is installed in an area that is level, what precautions does one have to take for the winter months? We'll have months at a time that temps are below freezing. The system that I will be installing is too large to pick up every year. (25 or so fruit trees)

Sorry esshup, but we don't have to winterize much in Texas. I have read they blow air through the systems up north. One other mistake I made with my first drip system is not installing an injector. Algae and/or minerals will clog up the tubing, even the filters will clog. There is a fairly cheap & easy way to install a removable injector like this one http://www.dripworksusa.com/store/fertilizer.php that I bought & retro-fitted to my Walnut trees...du

Thanks!

esshup, add a water flush valve at lowest point, and/or threaded end caps so that you can easily drain remaining water. Check these out here:

http://www.irrigationdirect.com/tutorial...rt-advice/id/19

Since the lines will be pretty much level, and I can't 100% say that there will be a significantly "lower" point, could I install the flush caps at the furthest end and then remove the caps in the Fall and blow air thru the main lines? I don't plan on having any spagetti tubes, just the emitters poked right in the main lines. 25 trees, laid out in a grid of 5 rows of 5 trees. The trees are semi-dwarf, and I was planning on two 1 gph emitters/tree. I was going to make a perimeter line, and then "T" from one side to the other to get water to the trees in the middle of the box. Will I have to control the air pressure that I use to not damage the emitters until the majority of the water is out of the line?

I blow my system out every fall with a standard air compressor. "Up North" we stay away from PVC and stick with only poly pipe as it is much more forgiving with freezing. I know some do nothing to winterize their drip systems other than empty the filter housings and have never had a problem.
Every Spring I spend more time fixing rodent damage than frost damage. Mice really like the smaller rubber or vinyl "spaghetti tubing".

I also like to bleach or use oxyclean to flush out my systems every year to remove built up organics. (no, it does not hurt the trees)

Thanks arond.

Sounds good arond, Texans are not good with frost... Wish I had them rodents here... prolly make pretty good soup.

esshup, what are you planting? Sounds like quite a project. You've probably already checked out the water requirements for your trees. If not, should be readily available on the web, or I can help with that if needed. Are these trees all that you'll have on that zone?

KDO:

Yep. Only the fruit trees and grass/clover. I keep the area under the drip line free of growing grass/clover/weeds. The trees are a mixture of apple, pear, peach and a few cherry trees. I tried a few apricot trees and never had luck with them. The soil is VERY sandy, that's one of the problems. All trees with the exception of peach and cherry are semi-dwarf. I believe the peach and cherry are standards. (going from memory)

I planted them 5 years ago, but realized that I needed to move them 2 years after I planted them. I had a guy come in with a tree spade and relocate them in 2008 - cheaper than buying new ones. I did lose 2 out of the 25 that were moved, but that's what happens when you move them in August..... I had picked all the developing fruit off of the trees to lessen the stress, but it still wasn't enough for a few of them. Moving a garden hose around was an all day affair to water them once a week.

The trees are planted on 15' centers (15' between each tree in every direction).

I never thought to look up the watering requirements.
I'm right on the edge of Zone 5a and 5b if that matters, technically in 5b.

esshup,

One inch of precipitation = .62 gal/sq ft., using Area = pi x radius squared, a 8’ diameter root zone is about 50 sf. and would require .62x50 = 31 gal. of water. If you have a 25 sf root zone (about 5.6' diameter) it would require 15.5 gal, if the zone is 12.5 sf (~2' diameter)it would require 7.75 gal.

So in the 8' diameter example if you watered once a week for one hour with a combination of emitters that provides approx 31 gph to a 50 sf area, this would provide the equiv. of 1” of rain. Since most fruit and nut trees require approx 2” per week, one of the following in this scenario could provide 2” per week: double the watering time, double the emitter output or simply water 2 times per week. Note that this assumes no rainfall. Rainfall should be subtracted from the irrigation requirements. A rain gauge would be a handy tool to keep in the irrigated area.

A 38’ drip line with .9 GPH emitters @ 12” spacing would provide ~34 gph. Such a drip line would make 2 loops around an 8’ diameter root zone (average about 3' from the trunk) to provide the equiv of 1” of rainfall.

Note that evapotranspiration (ET) is not considered here as the 2” precipitation rate is only an approximation to begin with. For reference, ET is defined as the water lost to the atmosphere from the ground surface (evaporation) and transpiration by plants. In Georgetown, TX, in March of 2010, the ET rate ranged between .05 to .3 inches per day. In July/Aug of 2010 it ranged from .10 to .35 in.

But I digress... Hope this helps.

Hey, what will you replace the 2 dead trees with? BTW, with sandy soil, it is better to provide irrigation perhaps 3 times a week. Just water 1/3 of the time than if watering once per week to provide the same 2" of water.

KDO:

Thanks! That helps a bunch. I agree, 3x week watering would be the best for them.

I don't know what to replace them with. The few that died were duplicates of what I had, plus I don't think the apricot tree made it either. I tried apricot trees 2 or 3 times and they didn't seem to do so well. I seem to have better luck with apples/pears than stone fruit trees, although the peaches did well last year. I was spoiled living in So. Cal. Fig and persimmon trees liked the climate, and so did avocado's. I had a few citrus trees as well, plus one apricot tree that would be loaded every year.

I've got a couple of cherry trees, a 2-3 pear trees, 2-3 peach trees, and the rest are different varities of apple. Golden Delicious, Red Delicious, Scarlet, Wolf River, Honey Gold, JonaGold; I don't have a Gala. There was one apple tree here by the house when I bought the place and the owners couldn't tell me what kind it was. It stays green, and is ripe by the 3rd week of August. All the fruit should be picked no later than the first week of Sept, or it goes bad. Semi-Dwarf. The trunk is about 8" diameter.

I own and run a landscaping business here in mo. and we have found that using the drip with spaghetti tubing combined with the pvc buried next to the root ball is very effective at watering the trees. We place two tubes into the 1 1/2 inch pvc so the water gets to the bottom of the ball to promote a deeper root zone. It also comes in handy for using fertilizers. take slow release granules and place in the pvc per label and every time you water your tree is getting trace amounts of fertilizers. Especially useful when trees are next to your pond due to reduction in runoff because of heavy rains..