Ok guys, the wifer says I have enough hobbies, but here it goes

I live on 10 wooded acres in Gainesville, Fl. I have been interested in putting in a pond since we moved in a few months ago. I was casually surfing the net when i stumbled upon this site.

I have since spent the vast majority of my awake time on this site. IT IS AWESOME!

I have already ordered the "perfect pond want one" Book

I have also just ordered my subscription to PB magazine

I am very excited about all of this but I realize because of my location/ permits/ city regulations, let alone my "sinkhole" soil- I may not be able to put a pond in, or at least not the 1/2 - 1 acre pond that I am envisioning.

I have contacted our NRCS, the response has been underwhelming thus far, But I am optimistic.

Questions

1. Of all the posts I have read, none have been from Florida pondmeisters, any idea why?

2. I have searched the net and this site for pond builders in florida, can't seem to find any that do anything bigger than a fancy pants coi pond. Does anyone have any #'s of reputable folks in my area.

3. Work with me here. My wife thinks this is a dumb idea. I keep telling her about how much the kids will enjoy it, the fishing, Etc. She keeps talking about gators, snakes, fish hooks in various body parts. If I get this past the boss, please tell me how much money her next kitchen remodel is going to cost me. Please include formula used for said calculation, and any ideas on how to convince the wife this is a good idea.

P.S. I already know not to tell her how much it will cost. I have been practicing the line "Sweety, It's only a hole in the ground, in fact they may pay us for the dirt they take away!"


Any info much appreciated,

Pond addict with no pond,

gallop


Bonus idea- I could use the threat of building a pond here to leverage buying hunting and fishing land in georgia- please discuss merits and pitfalls of this approach

No I am not ADD, yes I should be on medications

Gallop, That is a great first post, you already fit right in with this crew. Welcome aboard!

Gallop,Welcome aboard.As Dwight said,you're going to fit right in around here.
Now,for a little bad news.I went to the PondBoss conventionlast year and it cost me kitchen,bath,dining and livingroom remodel.And to make matters worse,NO pond privilages and No beer for a month(she thinks).Dont offer that kind of bribe,its not worth it.And besides,it eats into your pond fund.

Hi Gallop, and welcome!

I remember a few years back a fellow on the TBN (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums)built a pond, but I don't remember the outcome. What some people do in sandy soil is set aside all the clay they dig up, and later use it to line the pond. It gets a little expensive, but it can work if done properly.

To help promote the idea, ask your wife how much she pays for a bottle of water. Then tell her your pond will hold several million bottles of water.

Say, you wouldn't have a cousin in California named Jeff would you?

Alien abduction is my theory.




Yes, several, oh wait you said reputable people? No, never mind then.




Formula #1

A. Total estimated pond cost multiplied by 125%, label this computation A.
B. Divide Computation A by number of years already married, label this Computation B.
C. Muliply Computation B by the estimated total number of future years of marriage, label this Computation C
D. Add to Computation C the total estimated cost of divorce proceedings.
This equals the estimated cost of your kitchen remodel.

Formula #2

What ever your wife says the kitchen remodel will cost.

Most of the time you get stuck with Formula #2.




Keep practicing, also learn to sleep with one eye open.




Becareful of threats, especially if she does the cooking.




Join the club.

Welcome aboard Gallop, we're glad you found us.

Sincerely,

Your long lost cousin Jeff

Gallup, welcome to the asylum! Order your meds with Gayle when you subscribe.

IIRC there were a couple members that hailed form Fla..........but I think the gators got em.

I liner may be a good option for your area. Keep calling the NRCS and ask for a date-specific time to meet them at your proposed site. If that fails, as a last resort, ask to speak with their supervisor.

Thanks for the replies guys, I can tell this is going to be a lot of fun

Dwight
Love Minnesota, my wife and I flew into Ely and canoed and portaged through the boundary waters for 10 days a few years back. Looking forward to doing it again soon with the kids.

Tom G
One meeting costs you a whole house remodel? I thought what happens at the PB convention stays at the PB convention

bobad
I will check out that website, The bottled water idea is great, except I may end up drinking pond water from here on out

JHAP( aka cousin jeff)
Truly brilliant mathematical calculations. Fatal flaw of formula #1 is that if I build a pond my future years of marriage will = 0
Formula #2 rings a bell, I think it was part of our wedding vows
I look forward to confusing and amusing the rest of the forum with you

Rainman
I am going to stay on top of the NRCS until I get them to check out my land and proposed site.

Question: Is a liner a viable option on a 1/2 acre pond?



As a side note I was google earthing around and I found a neighbor with a pond hidden in the woods. I think I just made a new best friend, will try to pay a visit over the weekend.


Thanks again,

gallop

Yep. I'm sure some people on here have 1/2 lined ponds. You can do it for ponds much bigger than that.

Check out the resource section for a couple of companies that sell pond liner.

Also, you can see some of the project sizes of Colorado Lining.

I didn't use them, so can't comment. But liners can solve a lot of issues.

I'm fashionably late, as usual, but welcome to Pond Boss Sir Gallop!

I don't have any personal experience with pond liners, but from what I've heard and read, it is feasible for a 1/2 acre pond. Obviously, the bigger the pond, the more expensive the liner + installation. But what's some extra cash if it means a hole in the ground actually holding water.

I've been married 1.5 years, but I've already figured one thing out: it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission! I told my wife to add up what I spend on hunting and fishing each year and do whatever she wants with the same amount. I see yours chose the kitchen remodeling route--smart lady.

What exactly about your soil concerns you--is it sandy?

aaron m
Thanks for the links, will check out the lining info on the site as well.


davatsa
I wont say my soil is sandy, but instead of buying my kids a sandbox, I just fencd in the entire yard. I actually haven't done much deep digging on the property, so It may get much better deeper. Even though I am in north Florida, I am not quite north enough to get into some Georgia clay. Need to call the NRCS guy again monday

gallop
Welcome to the forum. You did the right thing in getting the book and magazine.

You will love this place.

You will need to see how deep the water table is. Your pond will more than likely be filled from groung water.

If you can get the goverment to help that will be great, in most places they are over worked and under paid.

Otto

Since you have accepted JHAP as ypur long lost cousin,your standing has dropped considerably around here.Perhaps you should choose your friends more carefully in the future.He just wants to get invited fishing when you finish your pond.I,on the other hand ,bring my own beer when I come fishing.Ill be in Biloxi next week,will the pond be stocked by then?

Otto
First your name is a palindrome, very cool

I am sure that this info is here somewhere, but do I just dig a hole until I hit water, or is there a fancier way to determine depth of the water table?

Any experience with Florida pond building or folks to recommend?

Tom G
My standing from "great first post" to "dropped considerably" occurred rather quickly, reminds of my dates in college

JHAP is invited to fish anytime, He will need very tiny hooks for the FHMs

I left a note for the neighbor with the pond, hope I get to pick his brain soon.

thanks
gallop

Mr. Gallop, as an employee of the state of Tennessee, I feel that it is my duty to stick my nose in your business and to remind you to do this the right way. One cheater in your state is enough.
Coach Lane Kiffin.

rmedgar
I see that you have heard about our football team

I can tell you are associated with GA and TN because of your spelling (cheater?)

Don't make me spank you like our SEC comish spanked Coach K


Seriously though, I don't envy coach K, he has big shoes to fill.
See you at the games next year?
Your welcome to fish my pond any time, but you must use only orange and blue lures

gallop

Gallop welcome to PB. You can get liners that size. There are a few folks from Fla on the forum. Soil test holes would be a good idea. See these 2 threads.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3956&fpart=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=120375&fpart=2

gallop, sorry about the misspell - I'm sure many people didn't know
what I was talking about!!! Good luck with the new pond......

gallop, Welcome. Lots of smiles so far with this thread.

Mr Otto is the dirt moving expert here (and everywhere). From what I have seen in my visits to FL from Orlando south when you dig a hole there is water like magic. If that is your case then building a pond in that type of ground means (at least to me) using a large track hoe or crane/drag-line and just digging a bowl or baking dish shaped hole as best as possible. If that is your situation then maybe a 1/4 to 1/3 acre pond is more feasable and economical than 1/2 ac or larger. From my experience with a pond that size (1/4-1/3) in the north it can raise YP and or YP/SMB (another post topic - Types of Fish TC). RES, coppernose BG, and LMB would also easily work if YP/smb combo plan fails.

There should be a governmental employee in your area/region that is a soil scientist. Most states have them; ask about him at the Soil and Water Conservation office. This guy should be able to enlighen you about the feasability of what type of pond you can build in your soil strata/profile.

Thanks, I will call soil and water consrvation office mon and update.

gallop

Gallop, welcome. I can't really be helpful here as I'm not married (thus I only have to convince myself and that took all of 2 seconds) and went straight for the hunting/fishing land in GA with 3 ponds. Of course, 3 wasn't enough so I just had an old dam repaired in the course of putting in a 3,000+ ft driveway and made pond #4.

However, why don't you convince her that you must dig anyway as the local sinkhole inspector came by and recommended you put in a pond now or risk a huge sinkhole in the future. "A perfect pond is so much nicer than a nasty old sinkhole, don't you agree Dear?" An ounce of prevention....

Worked in the panhandle and on the east coast.
A pair of post hole diggers will dig deep enough to tell you how far it is to water.

edinbowen
I have a friend in GA who is currently keeping an eye out for hunting/fishing land in GA for me. I think property values will continue to decrease and will hopefully be ready to pounce on a good deal. Very jealous of your land/ponds

Unfortunately my wife is smarter than I am so sinkhole prevention = divorce preparation

Otto
I have a post hole digger ready and waiting in the garage. Will start digging test holes and give updates. Hopefully with pics, if I can figure out my wifes fancy camera. Thanks for all the help!

Have her take the picture, that is what I do.

Unfortunately my wife is smarter than I am so sinkhole prevention = divorce preparation

Contact JHAP and have him tell you how to inform your wife whos the boss.That should get everything straightened out for you.(Unless he's getting the cast-iron skillet lesson from her again.)

Welcome aboard Gallop. I'm impressed, you know what a pallindrome is (had to ask my 12 year old). As Toma noted, avoid cast iron in the kitchen remodel and if your wife is anything like mine, hide your firearms. I got lucky as my wife loves to fish so I can't help you with the math. JHAP can but you have to put up with his salespitch as to the wonderful attributes of the GSF.

I have the same problem. Prayers sent...

Ok kids,

BREAKING NEWS

Spoke to a very nice woman at NRCS today. She was very honest and basically said they only got involved with Agricultural ponds. Was very helpful with soil info and gave me several names of recommended pond builders/excavators.

Spoke briefly with two reputable excavators, they along with the NRCS folks told me to save the effort of digging test holes, all the surrounding ponds in my area have either been lined with clay
(at considerable expense they added, b/c it had to be trucked in) or put in with synthetic liners, which all recommended. I forget the name of the soil exactly but think beach, as in Daytona.

Excavator coming out Fri to take a look, asked him some test questions based on my limited knowledge, and he passed with "pond boss" answers. Also is going to bring references.

If all goes well, I think I still have a significant issue. The pond will be located on the back of the property. I have two small children, and my wife has brought up the issue of safety with the pond. We have a pool, but this has the child safety fence around it as required by Florida law. I am concerned about the kids trying to get into the "cool new pond" and getting into trouble. They are just learning to swim. The idea of a fence has occurred to both of us ,but I feel it would be no match for a determined child.

What do you folks with small kids do with your ponds?

I am leaning towards waiting until they are older to put the pond in. The kids are obviously more important then the pond. I don't want anyone to think we let the kids out in the yard unsupervised, but kids can disappear pretty quick if they are determined

Suggestions?

Solutions?

1) Our kids had tons of swimming lessons from an early age. This was mostly due to a Grandpa who had a boat.

2) NOBODY in the family went swimming in the pond alone or without a PFD.

3) Drag the kids back to the pond all the time. They will get more exposure to it than they want, and will have no/less incentive to go on their own.

4) There are a lot of other things around here that our kids knew they were not supposed to get into besides the pond. Other than my daughter and the electric fence, they never did. (And my daughter is apparently a natural dielectric, as e-fence never managed to shock her even as it zapped us as we went through to retrieve her.)

A engineer with a a dielectric child? And some people say God has no sense of humor!

My kids are 11 and 13 now, but we had a pool before we built the pond. The 1st rule is for you, not the kids: Teach them to swim before they can walk. It's a lot easier than you think if you don't strap floaties on them. They are like welfare, once you get used to it, you can't live without it. Then impose rules on them like not going to the pond (or pool) alone, there must be a PFD in the paddleboat at all times, let an adult know when you go to the pond, etc.

Gallop, Thought i'd wake this one up again. Did your wife ever give in and let you build a pond? I worried about the kids getting in my pond as well. I just put up a new fence and will be installing a 2 wire electric setup on the new fence shortly. Scared the wife to death when i told her i was planning to electrify the fence. She is a city girl and figgured the kids would look like bacon strips after getting stuck to the fence. It took about 2 months of talking about it for her to understand (be willing to anyway) that getting shocked was a temporary thing and was much better than the alternative. She now assumes my current mental state is due to getting shocked too many times as a kid growing up on a horse farm. I know when i started digging my pond i hit grey/gumbo clay about 4-5 ft down and at 18 ft. still never broke out of the clay. I traded a 10ft gap bed engine lathe with a 24in diameter and 72in length capacity for the labor work digging my pond (plus a few cases of beer). The guy was a functioning alcoholic but never was late to work and never got fussy or gave any crap. Most folks around here cant afford to pay someone to repair their machines. Now he can do most of it himself with the lathe. He ran the hoe and i used the cat dozer with a bucket blade. All my clay in the bottom was put on the sides and compacted, id guess i have 5ft thick compacted clay walls in my pond. So far so good. Folks around here are hurting and will barter. Anyway, give me a buzz if you plan to be in Lake City..

functioning alcoholic?--See if he ever had a job working for Mike Otto

Is that a pre-rec for being a heavy equipment operator?

It's not necessarily YOUR kids that you might be concerned about. It's the other kids in the 'hood. This is (regretfully) timely for me.
This past weekend, while Dski and I were on the roof of our latest project, we heard some voices way off in the distance. Yep, 2 youngsters and a dog. They were all the way at the other end of the pond, at the dam. This in of itself sucks since I methodically introduced myself to the fistful of neighbors we have and made sure they all understood that we won't tolerate trespassing. So much for words vs the power of kids in the country.
We have had a week's worth of well-above freezing temps. The ice is thin and slushy. In fact, there were a couple of open holes nearer the center of the pond. You can hear the 5 acre ice sheet heave and crack as it moves and melts.
So....we look to the direction of the voices and sure enough, the 2 kids and the dog are out on the ice. They weren't very far out (when we walked over there later, the footprints went out about 20 feet from the dam, but it is 3:1 slope that goes down to 13-14 feet of depth).
I cupped my hands and yelled loudly, slowly enunciating: GET OFF OF THE ICE. They did and scampered back into the woods in the direction of a couple of neighbors that have kids. Later, we called one Mom of a kid that I suspected. After clothing and dog description, she felt pretty sure that it was her kid...and she was not happy. She believed it was her kid with the other neighbor's kid that he hangs out with. Anyway, I went thru my brief litany about not wanting anybody on our property and stopped short of telling her how to handle her own kid....except to say that whoever his parents are, they are lucky that he made it home for dinner. She promised due diligence and a report back to me to verify her suspicions. Otherwise, I have a couple other calls to make to other neighbors.

Yikes, is this the official first trespassing episode? I know it's inevitable mine lies in the future. I'm glad you weren't fishing those boys and their dog out of the lake. Well done, Bski, on keeping your cool head. I'm hopeful to take a cue from Bski and not completely lose it when faced with trespassers.

Excellent advice TG. When we move [hopefully] to Hudland I will need to remember these useful guidelines. No substitute for teaching the chillin to swim, and swim well. I grew up on a sandpit lake and the Platte river during the Summers from age 2-15 and my swimming ability not only saved my hide in the Platte a few times but also city friends who panicked in deep water.

There's good things to be said for electric fences.....

Also, never pee on an electric fence, one of my old dogs taught me that.

Unfortunately for me logic and common sense has won out for the time being (I hate it when that happens) I am still planning on the near future, but on hold for now. What my wife doesn't know is that my plans are becoming more elaborate. For example, I am including plans for a bat house just off the pond (~800 bats capacity), also the idea of aquaponics is interesting and I may try to incorporate a green house/garden into the system.

rcn I would love to see your pond, and i wish i had your clay. I will contact you soon

I've built 2 bat houses. However, bats don't seem to like mine.

I did that when I was a teenager. Not on purpose, not even a dare, but completely on accident because the wire was concealed by tall grass. Was not pleasant.

UF has one the largest bat houses of any university and they are building another one after a portion of the original bat house collapsed. Very cool to see the mass exodus of bats at dusk. I forget how many thousands they estimated were in there. What I've learned about bat houses is location,location,location.

Gallop, sounds fine to me, let me know.